The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation.
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@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret I hope you find a UX way to address harassment on Mastodon. It would be very benificial. The AI example was a poor one, as literally everybody knows by now, and it’s a shame if that gets in the way of actual positive change, e.g. for marginalized communities, and ideally imho also for journalists and other asymmetrical or parasocial posters.
(Tl;dr: More minorities and famous people!) -
RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
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@stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret I agree with everything you're saying.
@scottjenson I can ask you directly then!
s1m0n4 (@s1m0n4@ohai.social)
@haubles@hachyderm.io also is there a way to get stats on all #Mastodon users? What is the data for stating that people are leaving? Because if they're leaving instances hosted in the US, I have a valid explanation for that and it has nothing to do with Mastodon.
ohai.social (ohai.social)
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@stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret I agree with everything you're saying.
As I’ve said in earlier replies there are many different and overlapping communities on Fediverse and the care I’m taking here to communicate clearly and very specifically to help you is an example of what sometimes happens here.
I don’t see it happening on other social networks. It’s something I value greatly whether I’m participating or not. It’s what I mean by engagement.
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles Assuming they have removed bots from these stats?
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles uh, that took a while?
I’m looking forward to reading the Mastodon team’s statement on the matter.
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What do you hope to accomplish from posting easily disproven lies in this thread?
@troed @lutindiscret @haubles Dude, you realise Scott spent most of yesterday trying to dig himself out of the hole he created.
It apparently resulted in someone from Mastodon apologising for it. Go bug someone else.
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As I’ve said in earlier replies there are many different and overlapping communities on Fediverse and the care I’m taking here to communicate clearly and very specifically to help you is an example of what sometimes happens here.
I don’t see it happening on other social networks. It’s something I value greatly whether I’m participating or not. It’s what I mean by engagement.
@stepheneb
and I hope it's clear that I value your efforts. Much appreciated.My hypothesis is that 95% of the people on mastodon are amazing and it forms a unique and valued community. My issue is with that remaining 5%. Of course,that may just be a factor of any social network.
But there are enough stories of people being dissuaded that I would still like to explore it further.
@troed @lutindiscret -
@scottjenson I can ask you directly then!
s1m0n4 (@s1m0n4@ohai.social)
@haubles@hachyderm.io also is there a way to get stats on all #Mastodon users? What is the data for stating that people are leaving? Because if they're leaving instances hosted in the US, I have a valid explanation for that and it has nothing to do with Mastodon.
ohai.social (ohai.social)
@s1m0n4 I have no official role to be able to talk to you about that. What I will say is what has been frequently discussed in Fediform and Bluesky meetings as well: both platforms are losing users. This is just "common wisdom" and should be treated cautiously. It's just what people are saying.
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@starraven @haubles Bingo.
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Is it really baffling though? This is the whole "Big Fedi" approach that Evan and others advocate. In The (annotated) case for "Big Fedi I used italics to highlight what's implied but usually left unsaid
"Everyone on the planet should have an account on the fediverse (even Nazis, racists, transphobes, white supremacists, hate groups who target people of color, LGBTQIA2S+ people, and other marginalized communities). It will make the internet better and the world better (if Nazis et al are on the fediverse, as opposed to trying to keep them off)
Under Eugen, Mastodon tended to be on the "Big Fedi" side -- seeing Threads' decision to adopt ActivityPub as a huge victory for the cause, opposing opt-in federation as contrary to Mastodon's mission, etc. So I see this more as a longstanding tension in fedi that's just manifesting in a different way.
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Is it really baffling though? This is the whole "Big Fedi" approach that Evan and others advocate. In The (annotated) case for "Big Fedi I used italics to highlight what's implied but usually left unsaid
"Everyone on the planet should have an account on the fediverse (even Nazis, racists, transphobes, white supremacists, hate groups who target people of color, LGBTQIA2S+ people, and other marginalized communities). It will make the internet better and the world better (if Nazis et al are on the fediverse, as opposed to trying to keep them off)
Under Eugen, Mastodon tended to be on the "Big Fedi" side -- seeing Threads' decision to adopt ActivityPub as a huge victory for the cause, opposing opt-in federation as contrary to Mastodon's mission, etc. So I see this more as a longstanding tension in fedi that's just manifesting in a different way.
@jdp23 @jens @haubles
Well, if those people come in here in numbers, a lot of other people will leave in numbers.
So it is really the question:
Would you rather have queerfolk, or TERFs? Would you rather have Nazis, or marginalized people?
It's an effect as old as time. You let the haters in, and the decent people will inevitably leave.
I already lost many friends, even some family contacts by deleting my accounts on FB/X.
If I have to delete the fediverse to escape TERFs, so be it. -
@jdp23 @jens @haubles
Well, if those people come in here in numbers, a lot of other people will leave in numbers.
So it is really the question:
Would you rather have queerfolk, or TERFs? Would you rather have Nazis, or marginalized people?
It's an effect as old as time. You let the haters in, and the decent people will inevitably leave.
I already lost many friends, even some family contacts by deleting my accounts on FB/X.
If I have to delete the fediverse to escape TERFs, so be it. -
@jdp23 @jens @haubles
I'm the last one to dictate the culture. I am here because I like how it is.
But I am also ready to leave if it changes too far in the wrong direction.
Just like I stayed on FB up until they explicitly allowed, almost endorsed, harassment of trans people.
That day, I deleted my account and never looked back.The question is: Why would you turn Fedi into Twitter, when you already have Twitter? What's the purpose then?
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles which bit in particular does not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team? The bit about welcome a multitude of viewpoints and not just remaining a bubble?
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What kind of journalist calls himself “carnage4life”?
When I was a kid, journalists had names like “Peter Jennings”, their shows had names like “World News Tonight”, and they didn't whine about their viewers not fawning sufficiently.
Maybe my glasses are rose-tinted, but I miss when most adults did their jobs with competence and professionalism.
@argv_minus_one @haubles how to get it back?
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Is it really baffling though? This is the whole "Big Fedi" approach that Evan and others advocate. In The (annotated) case for "Big Fedi I used italics to highlight what's implied but usually left unsaid
"Everyone on the planet should have an account on the fediverse (even Nazis, racists, transphobes, white supremacists, hate groups who target people of color, LGBTQIA2S+ people, and other marginalized communities). It will make the internet better and the world better (if Nazis et al are on the fediverse, as opposed to trying to keep them off)
Under Eugen, Mastodon tended to be on the "Big Fedi" side -- seeing Threads' decision to adopt ActivityPub as a huge victory for the cause, opposing opt-in federation as contrary to Mastodon's mission, etc. So I see this more as a longstanding tension in fedi that's just manifesting in a different way.
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@haubles I found it most fascinating that he kept talking about a "bigger tent", and didn't even engage the argument that mastodon simply is NOT a single tent, neither big nor small.
It is a campground with many tents of varying sizes, each on with own rules and community.He also completely disregards the fact that many people came to mastodon specifically to escape the relentless onslaught of AI (content and functions) being forced into literally every other platform.
I think it is also more than one campground, bunch of campground.
Sometimes you will hear another campground having a party and wander over and join in. Other times it just makes you happy, they are being happy over there and you continue to cook your meal on the fire, while the guy next to you is debugging the USB C connector he is installing in his Commadore 64 disk drive, except a cat keeps sitting on it.
Later you go down for a swim in the lake and on way you meet some guys who want to point out a cool looking rock and some moss they found. At the lake there is a guy expert in eel history and a guy who has been sailing a single handled boat around the world, but wants to go check out the moss here.
And while politics invertently finds its way into campground form the outside world, mostly the campground is a place to escape from such pressure
Occassionly someone will turn up with a megaphone and amplified music, broadcasting. self promoting, "look at me, listrn to my podcast about me" trying to get attention, but not participating, but they largely get igored, or sent to a campground as far as way as possible.
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@s1m0n4 Most servers publish their stats and you can view them aggregated on sites like https://fedidb.com/stats.
