tell me you’re a coward without telling me
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@Athena oh yes, it has, but you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions
like, the tech industry is extremely unfavorable to people who dissent to LLMs and just showing up and complaining that people aren't doing enough is putting these people in impossible positions where they agree with you but are forced to say nothing and let the fascists dunk on you because they can't be so overt about it
I've been especially frustrated lately because this has been happening to me too, but like, at least I know what the situation is and am working on changing it. again, I'm just pointing out that even though you were extremely tame in the discussion relative to what you're saying here, all you did is invite more folks to throw shit and get the discussion locked so now not even I can comment on it
@clarfonthey ah yes the anti-fascists are bad because they are too loud and yelly and turn people into fascists by being annoying so anti-fascists need to shut up and play by the fascists rules, got it
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena
You should really pause and reconsider your thoughts when you start any argument with "instead of ethical concerns..." -
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena Would you be willing to link this quote for me? I can't find it, but unfortunately can totally believe someone said it.
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@clarfonthey ah yes the anti-fascists are bad because they are too loud and yelly and turn people into fascists by being annoying so anti-fascists need to shut up and play by the fascists rules, got it
@Athena there's a difference between tone policing and telling people the reality of what's going on
I've been tone policed to hell and back and I don't want to tell you what to do. the reality though is that it doesn't matter what I tell you to do because I know the effect; the thread is now locked from discussion and neither of us can participate
does that make you happy?
like, ultimately, I disagree that playing nice with people is going to be the way to get things done. but I just wanted to let you know just how many people are on the same page with you and to know who you should be putting energy into fighting and who you're just annoying by arguing with
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@Athena "Ignoring every valid reason that we shouldn't use LLMs, including those we don't know yet, there are no reasons we shouldn't use LLMs."
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena
At least techbros are finally being honest. Wrong and evil, but at least they're honest about it. -
@Athena there's a difference between tone policing and telling people the reality of what's going on
I've been tone policed to hell and back and I don't want to tell you what to do. the reality though is that it doesn't matter what I tell you to do because I know the effect; the thread is now locked from discussion and neither of us can participate
does that make you happy?
like, ultimately, I disagree that playing nice with people is going to be the way to get things done. but I just wanted to let you know just how many people are on the same page with you and to know who you should be putting energy into fighting and who you're just annoying by arguing with
@Athena we all have an extremely finite amount of energy to expend every day and someone who doesn't know what's going on showing up, labelling everyone as cowards, and openly "hoping to get banned" for their actions doesn't do anything but take away that energy we were going to put into action
like I'm not saying you're wrong for doing this, I'm just saying that you should understand what you're doing
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@Athena we all have an extremely finite amount of energy to expend every day and someone who doesn't know what's going on showing up, labelling everyone as cowards, and openly "hoping to get banned" for their actions doesn't do anything but take away that energy we were going to put into action
like I'm not saying you're wrong for doing this, I'm just saying that you should understand what you're doing
@clarfonthey I am satisfied with the current results of my actions yes
and what do you think you’re doing by showing up in my mentions uninvited to scold me for shit?
How effective do you think it would be if I did the same to Mr. Wood?
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
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@Athena Stupid reductive utilitarianism has been the subject of satire since Dickens at least and technophiles do it straight.
@Athena Looking at it a bit more, the argument against basing their policy on ethics is a direct rejection of Kant's categorical imperative, that you should always act as if your decisions are a model for everyone else in an analogous situation. Kant deliberately doesn't take into account whether you will influence anyone.
As with any major ethical school, it's easy to find counterexamples for Kant.
But that's not relevant in this case, because the Rust Foundation *is* influential, and denying responsibility fails not just as an abstract question but on practical grounds.
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@Athena Would you be willing to link this quote for me? I can't find it, but unfortunately can totally believe someone said it.
@cr1901 quote of a quote from this post https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-forge/pull/1040#discussion_r3248595417
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@Athena
At least techbros are finally being honest. Wrong and evil, but at least they're honest about it.@Athena am hella glad I've been moving towards zig lately!!! They have a strict no-llm policy there!
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@clarfonthey I am satisfied with the current results of my actions yes
and what do you think you’re doing by showing up in my mentions uninvited to scold me for shit?
How effective do you think it would be if I did the same to Mr. Wood?
@Athena oh, believe me, I'm already mad enough at him for his bullshit
I was mad at jyn earlier for seemingly throwing me under the bus to quote him
and I'm mad at you because now ultimately I do not have a say in this discussion any more and you do not seem to care
but sure. be happy that you've managed to get some clout on social media for complaining to people who already were frustrated with the situation to begin with. I'm not gonna change your mind or even say you were wrong for what you did. I just want you to know that sometimes stirring shit just makes people who were already exhausted more exhausted, and doesn't actually further the cause you were supporting
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena Typical.
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@Athena oh, believe me, I'm already mad enough at him for his bullshit
I was mad at jyn earlier for seemingly throwing me under the bus to quote him
and I'm mad at you because now ultimately I do not have a say in this discussion any more and you do not seem to care
but sure. be happy that you've managed to get some clout on social media for complaining to people who already were frustrated with the situation to begin with. I'm not gonna change your mind or even say you were wrong for what you did. I just want you to know that sometimes stirring shit just makes people who were already exhausted more exhausted, and doesn't actually further the cause you were supporting
@Athena like ultimately it's fucking damning if you think you're just as difficult to convince as someone who uses fascist rhetoric
I'm only talking to you because I genuinely believe you're reasonable and understand shit. would hate to be proven wrong
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@Athena How long until they too enforce a Robophobia Equality Policy?
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@Athena oh, believe me, I'm already mad enough at him for his bullshit
I was mad at jyn earlier for seemingly throwing me under the bus to quote him
and I'm mad at you because now ultimately I do not have a say in this discussion any more and you do not seem to care
but sure. be happy that you've managed to get some clout on social media for complaining to people who already were frustrated with the situation to begin with. I'm not gonna change your mind or even say you were wrong for what you did. I just want you to know that sometimes stirring shit just makes people who were already exhausted more exhausted, and doesn't actually further the cause you were supporting
@clarfonthey I genuinely hope you have a nice day and go do something you enjoy for a while today and forget about jackasses on the Internet for a bit.
Jyn suggested emailing her with thoughts on the issue, as an alternative route to having a say. As you note: probably more effective than on a public issue if you have a concrete proposal anyway!
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena does it let us make a better programming language? no! but lets not focus on that…
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
This list really ought to trigger an "Are we the baddies?" moment.
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@clarfonthey I genuinely hope you have a nice day and go do something you enjoy for a while today and forget about jackasses on the Internet for a bit.
Jyn suggested emailing her with thoughts on the issue, as an alternative route to having a say. As you note: probably more effective than on a public issue if you have a concrete proposal anyway!
@Athena oh, rest assured that my day was already ruined before you showed up, I'm just trying to help people understand how actually one-sided this discussion is on the inside despite it being completely stonewalled on the outside
I would apologise but it feels extremely clear this conversation hasn't upset you at all, so, just continue enjoying your day I guess
