Something I find interesting about the way Toby Fox and people that occupy that space handle queerness is the fact that, like, none of their characters are really *queer,* per se.
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Something I find interesting about the way Toby Fox and people that occupy that space handle queerness is the fact that, like, none of their characters are really *queer,* per se.
Like, in the original sense of the word, I mean. Alphys and Undyne are, in a literal sense, lesbians, but the society in which they exist doesn't view lesbian relationships as strange or abnormal so their love lacks any of the inherent friction of real life same-sex pairings. You could make the Royal Guards a buff4buff straight couple and literally nothing would change.
This is why I feel UTDR has problems depicting transness in any real way. The main character is nonbinary but seemingly they just spawned into the world like that, because actually *showing* transition in the way people experience it requires that friction, something the idyllic post-queerphobic society of Hometown can't handle. -
Something I find interesting about the way Toby Fox and people that occupy that space handle queerness is the fact that, like, none of their characters are really *queer,* per se.
Like, in the original sense of the word, I mean. Alphys and Undyne are, in a literal sense, lesbians, but the society in which they exist doesn't view lesbian relationships as strange or abnormal so their love lacks any of the inherent friction of real life same-sex pairings. You could make the Royal Guards a buff4buff straight couple and literally nothing would change.
This is why I feel UTDR has problems depicting transness in any real way. The main character is nonbinary but seemingly they just spawned into the world like that, because actually *showing* transition in the way people experience it requires that friction, something the idyllic post-queerphobic society of Hometown can't handle.@AppleAmps idk? imo there's SOME evidence that toriel is homophobic in some way, and i've always read kris as explicitly trans(nonbinary), in the same or a similar way to how i and other real people are trans
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@AppleAmps idk? imo there's SOME evidence that toriel is homophobic in some way, and i've always read kris as explicitly trans(nonbinary), in the same or a similar way to how i and other real people are trans
@shroomie
Frankly the Toriel bit is approaching fanon but either way, that's my point. If Kris was transplanted to our reality they'd obviously be trans because to be where they are they'd have had to transition, but within the text they aren't because they didn't. What I'm talking about here is that the trans experience necessitates transition, a transgression against cispatriarchal social norms. Within a fictional setting where those norms don't exist, and someone really can just spawn in being non-binary, trans-ness isn't a concept that applies. That's also my point with Undyne and Alphys, if they existed on Earth they'd be queer but because within the Underground queer people are treated as straight, their fictional relationship is culturally closer to irl straight pairings than irl gay pairings.
My point is that UTDR has a lot of representation where the character in question is technically gay or trans but not a lot that reflects the experience of being queer. -
@shroomie
Frankly the Toriel bit is approaching fanon but either way, that's my point. If Kris was transplanted to our reality they'd obviously be trans because to be where they are they'd have had to transition, but within the text they aren't because they didn't. What I'm talking about here is that the trans experience necessitates transition, a transgression against cispatriarchal social norms. Within a fictional setting where those norms don't exist, and someone really can just spawn in being non-binary, trans-ness isn't a concept that applies. That's also my point with Undyne and Alphys, if they existed on Earth they'd be queer but because within the Underground queer people are treated as straight, their fictional relationship is culturally closer to irl straight pairings than irl gay pairings.
My point is that UTDR has a lot of representation where the character in question is technically gay or trans but not a lot that reflects the experience of being queer.@shroomie
And you can see this in action! Queer-focused discussions of Deltarune always have to exist within the realm of theories and assumptions: Ralsei is an egg, Toriel and Carol are homophobic, Mancountry represents Kris' transition, because if you stick to what's explicit in the text there aren't any discussions to be had. -
@shroomie
And you can see this in action! Queer-focused discussions of Deltarune always have to exist within the realm of theories and assumptions: Ralsei is an egg, Toriel and Carol are homophobic, Mancountry represents Kris' transition, because if you stick to what's explicit in the text there aren't any discussions to be had. -
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