If you start thinking about the ways Candice Owens and Oprah are similar you will at first be mad at me for bringing this up (how dare) however there is more there than I think we might like.
-
I can only hope there is someone in her life that will help to keep her safe.
But, that doesn't change the fact that children can become disposable once labeled "fast" or "trouble makers"
Why should that be the case? Shouldn't the bad choices they make be opportunities to learn and grow?
Instead we teach our daughters "never be like that, because then no one will believe or protect you"
This is practical advice. Pragmatic. Depressing.
In Alex Haley's autobiography of Malcolm X, I was quite touched by the story he tells of his (girl) friend he had in his delinquent youth, who lived with her devout grandmother who forbade her to go dancing.
Then she went to dance, was thrown off the house by her grandma, and a friend of Malcolm tricked her into prostitution.
So in a way the grandma was right to distrust her friends ?
But also if she hadn't thrown the girl out, she would not be that vulnerable to that pimp ?
Tragic. -
I was deeply disgusted with her. Scared for her as well. Almost to the point that I wanted to say something "do you really want to be visible in this way?" She seemed very happy in her moment. Thrilled with the attention, with breaking the rules by smoking, I'm certain she felt in control of her life and bright and powerful.
I also think she was very clearly on a very fast track to a very bad place.
But, why am I so judgemental of her? She's an obnoxious teen, this is not a crime.
@futurebird @lienrag Because we are all so indoctrinated by patriarchy that we respond automatically to condemn a 'bad' girl.
In reality, how else can girls get power? It's the same as young children being manipulative - that's literally the *only* tool they have to have any control over their external world. Maybe she only feels safe when she has power over others.
It takes a lot of love and empathic attention to feel safe enough to not feel the need to be manipulative.
-
In Alex Haley's autobiography of Malcolm X, I was quite touched by the story he tells of his (girl) friend he had in his delinquent youth, who lived with her devout grandmother who forbade her to go dancing.
Then she went to dance, was thrown off the house by her grandma, and a friend of Malcolm tricked her into prostitution.
So in a way the grandma was right to distrust her friends ?
But also if she hadn't thrown the girl out, she would not be that vulnerable to that pimp ?
Tragic.I mean, what was tragic is the fact that the grandma was poor and had a hard life (considering the timing, she probably had relatives who had been slaves, if not herself), so she clearly made bad choices (obviously throwing out a teen off your house for dancing is bad) but it's not clear that she had access to better ones...
-
In Alex Haley's autobiography of Malcolm X, I was quite touched by the story he tells of his (girl) friend he had in his delinquent youth, who lived with her devout grandmother who forbade her to go dancing.
Then she went to dance, was thrown off the house by her grandma, and a friend of Malcolm tricked her into prostitution.
So in a way the grandma was right to distrust her friends ?
But also if she hadn't thrown the girl out, she would not be that vulnerable to that pimp ?
Tragic.This is exactly why I'm critical of my own reaction of disgust to that kid. So many of the ways we have been taught to respond to these things might keep some people safe. But at the expense of writing of others as beyond help. Unredeemable. Not worth saving or listening to.
Just leaving them to those predators who are always stalking, looking for a victim no one will listen to. I would like to put the spotlight on those predators.
Let's talk about them more.
-
I think the men thought I was with the school. Maybe that's good.
And maybe I'm just not reading what I'm seeing correctly.
I'm not an expert on social cues.
There were no white people, or wealthy people in this whole story I've told. The stories in the news occur all though society at different scales.
It matters how those stories play out. How they are talked about in mass media. These are examples. Affirmations of values.
Will anyone stand up for that girl, who looked 15 at most? Will she even have the ability to recognize abuse as abuse?
Some people would be happier if she had no such ideas.
-
@futurebird @lienrag Because we are all so indoctrinated by patriarchy that we respond automatically to condemn a 'bad' girl.
In reality, how else can girls get power? It's the same as young children being manipulative - that's literally the *only* tool they have to have any control over their external world. Maybe she only feels safe when she has power over others.
It takes a lot of love and empathic attention to feel safe enough to not feel the need to be manipulative.
That's true, but that's also how bullies become bullies.
It's a tragedy of human history that unloved people sometime become evil, and create for others the harshness they suffered from.
(getting promiscuous isn't the same a being evil, of course - what I mean is that unloved people do things that have bad consequences, even if they're not responsible for the lack of love and care they received) -
I can only hope there is someone in her life that will help to keep her safe.
But, that doesn't change the fact that children can become disposable once labeled "fast" or "trouble makers"
Why should that be the case? Shouldn't the bad choices they make be opportunities to learn and grow?
Instead we teach our daughters "never be like that, because then no one will believe or protect you"
This is practical advice. Pragmatic. Depressing.
@futurebird @lienrag Very few people will believe women over men anyway. We just desperately want to believe that being 'good' will magically protect us from the bad things that happen to other women. It's such a toxic situation.
It sucks to realise this.
And it's why I value my group of women friends so deeply. Because we know each other well enough that we believe each other first.
-
We've been living through a deeply reactionary moment. But a reaction to what? The first Black president? Maybe. But I don't think we can discount the momentum of "me too" -- This idea that every man, even the powerful, might be held accountable for their treatment of women and girls (even 'unimportant' women) made some people very very angry. (and also scared they could be next)
@futurebird@sauropods.win @lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net I think it goes farther back than that. The Montreal Protocol about the Ozone Layer scared the shit out of billionaires and exploiters. -
I was deeply disgusted with her. Scared for her as well. Almost to the point that I wanted to say something "do you really want to be visible in this way?" She seemed very happy in her moment. Thrilled with the attention, with breaking the rules by smoking, I'm certain she felt in control of her life and bright and powerful.
I also think she was very clearly on a very fast track to a very bad place.
But, why am I so judgemental of her? She's an obnoxious teen, this is not a crime.
By the way, have you watched "Little Senegal" ?
It's not a masterpiece, but it's quite good...(I have a vague memory of already having recommended it a few years ago, not sure whether it was to you)
-
There were no white people, or wealthy people in this whole story I've told. The stories in the news occur all though society at different scales.
It matters how those stories play out. How they are talked about in mass media. These are examples. Affirmations of values.
Will anyone stand up for that girl, who looked 15 at most? Will she even have the ability to recognize abuse as abuse?
Some people would be happier if she had no such ideas.
I listen to what teens talk about. They see the wars we have started, they see the scandals and how they end. They are paying more attention than you might think.
Teen boy on the train two years ago talking about something that happened at a party. "Like a real G, like Donald m-f-in Trump."
Teens talking about the war on Iran in the lunch room "The US bombs whoever they want. No one can do anything about it."
(I hope the boy doesn't remember saying that it's so embaressing)
-
That's true, but that's also how bullies become bullies.
It's a tragedy of human history that unloved people sometime become evil, and create for others the harshness they suffered from.
(getting promiscuous isn't the same a being evil, of course - what I mean is that unloved people do things that have bad consequences, even if they're not responsible for the lack of love and care they received)@lienrag
Absolutely true. We tend to recreate our experiences of society, especially under stress. And we only know what we experience. That's part of the whole issue with generational trauma. That's why many school teachers revert to strict discipline and explicit instruction under pressure.Daring to love each other, to risk the unknown in building a better society is scary. To have faith in human goodness while not being naive about societal realities is a tricky balance.
-
@futurebird In my experience, yes.
Relationships are personal, but news is public. So 'relationship news' may always be meaningless by definition, unless I know the people personally.
-
And for some reason everyone forgets all of the more exploitative episodes Oprah had. Always with that "understanding psychology" and compassion angle.
"How to identify a Psychopath" and other unscientific BS.
It's the same genre of media. One that will never die.
@futurebird She propagated so much anti-fatness too, wrapped up in "well these are just her feelings about herself so they can't be bigoted."
-
@petealexharris @catch56 @lienrag
Can we please agree that it is not possible for a teen to be a "prostitute" with an adult customer. Can we all just agree on that?
I don't care if she is 18 and 11 months of age, and looks like she's 28. I don't care if "she initiated everything"
Adult men need to be adults.
-
There is a kind of division in "news" where stories about relationships, engagements, infidelity etc. are classed as "not real news" -- but, people care immensely about this information.
If you are a woman who has allowed your position in society to be defined by your relationship to men the norms and morality implied by such stories have material consequences.
But, it's sidelined by "serious news" as "news for women" gossip.
And because of this it becomes like the description.
@futurebird Not just their position in society, but their entire livelihood, including and especially the impact on their retirement income from doing full-time unpaid work, sometimes for decades.
-
There is a kind of division in "news" where stories about relationships, engagements, infidelity etc. are classed as "not real news" -- but, people care immensely about this information.
If you are a woman who has allowed your position in society to be defined by your relationship to men the norms and morality implied by such stories have material consequences.
But, it's sidelined by "serious news" as "news for women" gossip.
And because of this it becomes like the description.
@futurebird It's basically a sexist divide: stories for men (business,sports scores political events) are news; stories for women (relationships, human triumph and tragedy, who's playing well on Broadway and who's playing behind the curtains) are features. Both sell ad inches, therefore you want them, but more men stop at the news stand on the way to the office job.
-
@petealexharris @catch56 @lienrag
Can we please agree that it is not possible for a teen to be a "prostitute" with an adult customer. Can we all just agree on that?
I don't care if she is 18 and 11 months of age, and looks like she's 28. I don't care if "she initiated everything"
Adult men need to be adults.
18 is age of majority in many countries.
Age of consent is between 14 and 16 in many countries too.
Shouldn't mean that teens are available for exploitation, but the world is a messy place. -
I keep thinking about how one of the reasons Epstein was not prosecuted in FL more seriously was due to the opposition research on his victims done by Alan Dershowitz . And Dershowitz was able to point to FL law that said that a teen, a 14 year old, could be charged with prostitution.
That is the conflict in our laws and values. A rich powerful man who gives a child pocket change to exploit her is a criminal. But we also regard the child as a criminal. It's monstrous.
In patriarchy, there are four genders.
Man, woman, child, whore.
"That child isn't a child if that child is a whore" is pretty much the insta scapegoat so necessary for making sure whatever powerful person (usually a man) is either a hero or a victim that it's often encoded into law.
-
We've been living through a deeply reactionary moment. But a reaction to what? The first Black president? Maybe. But I don't think we can discount the momentum of "me too" -- This idea that every man, even the powerful, might be held accountable for their treatment of women and girls (even 'unimportant' women) made some people very very angry. (and also scared they could be next)
I'd say it's a reaction to austerity in government programs while the rich get overtly richer. There clearly is government money there, just not for tax payers. And that's been really obvious ink the last 15 years as people have taken hit after hit.
First there was 2009 - government had money to bail out banks but not forgive the forced debt. Then there was oil collapse (in Canada anyway) in 2015. Then the 2020 pandemic response with supply chain disruptions (ongoing illness, climate change). Now, in the US, the self inflicted tariff.
As soon as people think money is finite they vote in people who will bring in harsher austerity measures because conservatives supposedly manage money better and accept shitty conditions for themselves as long as someone else suffers. Even better if it's a black woman because how could you possibly be discriminatory …
-
R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
