If you start thinking about the ways Candice Owens and Oprah are similar you will at first be mad at me for bringing this up (how dare) however there is more there than I think we might like.
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I keep thinking about how one of the reasons Epstein was not prosecuted in FL more seriously was due to the opposition research on his victims done by Alan Dershowitz . And Dershowitz was able to point to FL law that said that a teen, a 14 year old, could be charged with prostitution.
That is the conflict in our laws and values. A rich powerful man who gives a child pocket change to exploit her is a criminal. But we also regard the child as a criminal. It's monstrous.
I was walking in the rain through the south Bronx a few days ago. I ducked into Burger King just to get out of the weather and many of the teens from the local schools had the same idea.
The place was packed with teens. One girl stood out to me. She was smoking a blunt. (!) and holding court for a group of boys, young men and teens. She had an adorable outfit, but not one that I'd let any teen walk around in if I had any say in it.
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@futurebird behind the bastards podcast did a 6 parter on oprah. josef mengele only got a 4 parter
@mensrea @futurebird it's a complex listen. oprah is at times very sympathetic, doing the right thing and all, but the harm she caused is still clearly immense
somehoe even here she's comparible to candice. candice used to position herself as a progressive. she fought for actually good things. i can't remember what exactly, but her far-right turn was substantial. guess when a charismatic and influential person gets sucked down a rabbit hole they make it everyone's problem
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I was walking in the rain through the south Bronx a few days ago. I ducked into Burger King just to get out of the weather and many of the teens from the local schools had the same idea.
The place was packed with teens. One girl stood out to me. She was smoking a blunt. (!) and holding court for a group of boys, young men and teens. She had an adorable outfit, but not one that I'd let any teen walk around in if I had any say in it.
I was deeply disgusted with her. Scared for her as well. Almost to the point that I wanted to say something "do you really want to be visible in this way?" She seemed very happy in her moment. Thrilled with the attention, with breaking the rules by smoking, I'm certain she felt in control of her life and bright and powerful.
I also think she was very clearly on a very fast track to a very bad place.
But, why am I so judgemental of her? She's an obnoxious teen, this is not a crime.
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I was deeply disgusted with her. Scared for her as well. Almost to the point that I wanted to say something "do you really want to be visible in this way?" She seemed very happy in her moment. Thrilled with the attention, with breaking the rules by smoking, I'm certain she felt in control of her life and bright and powerful.
I also think she was very clearly on a very fast track to a very bad place.
But, why am I so judgemental of her? She's an obnoxious teen, this is not a crime.
I can only hope there is someone in her life that will help to keep her safe.
But, that doesn't change the fact that children can become disposable once labeled "fast" or "trouble makers"
Why should that be the case? Shouldn't the bad choices they make be opportunities to learn and grow?
Instead we teach our daughters "never be like that, because then no one will believe or protect you"
This is practical advice. Pragmatic. Depressing.
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Does "relationship news" have to be a gossip filled rumor infested trash heap?
Maybe?
@futurebird In my experience, yes.
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I can only hope there is someone in her life that will help to keep her safe.
But, that doesn't change the fact that children can become disposable once labeled "fast" or "trouble makers"
Why should that be the case? Shouldn't the bad choices they make be opportunities to learn and grow?
Instead we teach our daughters "never be like that, because then no one will believe or protect you"
This is practical advice. Pragmatic. Depressing.
As I left the Burger King I passed two men in their 40s near the door who were watching the teens like a pair of sharks. Chuckling to each other. Just like in that famous video of the president and Jeffery. The same body posture, knowing looks and pointing.
I looked one in the eye.
"There are a lot of kids here. Do you work at the school?"
They sobered up quickly to this. To the fact that I'd noticed them.
"No no, these kids are crazy."
"Do you know them?"
"No no no." -
As I left the Burger King I passed two men in their 40s near the door who were watching the teens like a pair of sharks. Chuckling to each other. Just like in that famous video of the president and Jeffery. The same body posture, knowing looks and pointing.
I looked one in the eye.
"There are a lot of kids here. Do you work at the school?"
They sobered up quickly to this. To the fact that I'd noticed them.
"No no, these kids are crazy."
"Do you know them?"
"No no no."The two men left, but I still felt disgusted and annoyed. But I don't teach around here. Were it my own neighborhood I'd have known some of the teens parents and talked to them about it.
I memorized the faces of those two men.
I always do this. Call me paranoid.
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The two men left, but I still felt disgusted and annoyed. But I don't teach around here. Were it my own neighborhood I'd have known some of the teens parents and talked to them about it.
I memorized the faces of those two men.
I always do this. Call me paranoid.
I think the men thought I was with the school. Maybe that's good.
And maybe I'm just not reading what I'm seeing correctly.
I'm not an expert on social cues.
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Does "relationship news" have to be a gossip filled rumor infested trash heap?
Maybe?
@futurebird@sauropods.win I think it doesn't have to be, but should. I mean, gossip can be fun and interesting, and is also part of the "other" news (just called rumors). As long as it's clear what's a rumor and what's facts. -
I can only hope there is someone in her life that will help to keep her safe.
But, that doesn't change the fact that children can become disposable once labeled "fast" or "trouble makers"
Why should that be the case? Shouldn't the bad choices they make be opportunities to learn and grow?
Instead we teach our daughters "never be like that, because then no one will believe or protect you"
This is practical advice. Pragmatic. Depressing.
In Alex Haley's autobiography of Malcolm X, I was quite touched by the story he tells of his (girl) friend he had in his delinquent youth, who lived with her devout grandmother who forbade her to go dancing.
Then she went to dance, was thrown off the house by her grandma, and a friend of Malcolm tricked her into prostitution.
So in a way the grandma was right to distrust her friends ?
But also if she hadn't thrown the girl out, she would not be that vulnerable to that pimp ?
Tragic. -
I was deeply disgusted with her. Scared for her as well. Almost to the point that I wanted to say something "do you really want to be visible in this way?" She seemed very happy in her moment. Thrilled with the attention, with breaking the rules by smoking, I'm certain she felt in control of her life and bright and powerful.
I also think she was very clearly on a very fast track to a very bad place.
But, why am I so judgemental of her? She's an obnoxious teen, this is not a crime.
@futurebird @lienrag Because we are all so indoctrinated by patriarchy that we respond automatically to condemn a 'bad' girl.
In reality, how else can girls get power? It's the same as young children being manipulative - that's literally the *only* tool they have to have any control over their external world. Maybe she only feels safe when she has power over others.
It takes a lot of love and empathic attention to feel safe enough to not feel the need to be manipulative.
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In Alex Haley's autobiography of Malcolm X, I was quite touched by the story he tells of his (girl) friend he had in his delinquent youth, who lived with her devout grandmother who forbade her to go dancing.
Then she went to dance, was thrown off the house by her grandma, and a friend of Malcolm tricked her into prostitution.
So in a way the grandma was right to distrust her friends ?
But also if she hadn't thrown the girl out, she would not be that vulnerable to that pimp ?
Tragic.I mean, what was tragic is the fact that the grandma was poor and had a hard life (considering the timing, she probably had relatives who had been slaves, if not herself), so she clearly made bad choices (obviously throwing out a teen off your house for dancing is bad) but it's not clear that she had access to better ones...
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In Alex Haley's autobiography of Malcolm X, I was quite touched by the story he tells of his (girl) friend he had in his delinquent youth, who lived with her devout grandmother who forbade her to go dancing.
Then she went to dance, was thrown off the house by her grandma, and a friend of Malcolm tricked her into prostitution.
So in a way the grandma was right to distrust her friends ?
But also if she hadn't thrown the girl out, she would not be that vulnerable to that pimp ?
Tragic.This is exactly why I'm critical of my own reaction of disgust to that kid. So many of the ways we have been taught to respond to these things might keep some people safe. But at the expense of writing of others as beyond help. Unredeemable. Not worth saving or listening to.
Just leaving them to those predators who are always stalking, looking for a victim no one will listen to. I would like to put the spotlight on those predators.
Let's talk about them more.
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I think the men thought I was with the school. Maybe that's good.
And maybe I'm just not reading what I'm seeing correctly.
I'm not an expert on social cues.
There were no white people, or wealthy people in this whole story I've told. The stories in the news occur all though society at different scales.
It matters how those stories play out. How they are talked about in mass media. These are examples. Affirmations of values.
Will anyone stand up for that girl, who looked 15 at most? Will she even have the ability to recognize abuse as abuse?
Some people would be happier if she had no such ideas.
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@futurebird @lienrag Because we are all so indoctrinated by patriarchy that we respond automatically to condemn a 'bad' girl.
In reality, how else can girls get power? It's the same as young children being manipulative - that's literally the *only* tool they have to have any control over their external world. Maybe she only feels safe when she has power over others.
It takes a lot of love and empathic attention to feel safe enough to not feel the need to be manipulative.
That's true, but that's also how bullies become bullies.
It's a tragedy of human history that unloved people sometime become evil, and create for others the harshness they suffered from.
(getting promiscuous isn't the same a being evil, of course - what I mean is that unloved people do things that have bad consequences, even if they're not responsible for the lack of love and care they received) -
I can only hope there is someone in her life that will help to keep her safe.
But, that doesn't change the fact that children can become disposable once labeled "fast" or "trouble makers"
Why should that be the case? Shouldn't the bad choices they make be opportunities to learn and grow?
Instead we teach our daughters "never be like that, because then no one will believe or protect you"
This is practical advice. Pragmatic. Depressing.
@futurebird @lienrag Very few people will believe women over men anyway. We just desperately want to believe that being 'good' will magically protect us from the bad things that happen to other women. It's such a toxic situation.
It sucks to realise this.
And it's why I value my group of women friends so deeply. Because we know each other well enough that we believe each other first.
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We've been living through a deeply reactionary moment. But a reaction to what? The first Black president? Maybe. But I don't think we can discount the momentum of "me too" -- This idea that every man, even the powerful, might be held accountable for their treatment of women and girls (even 'unimportant' women) made some people very very angry. (and also scared they could be next)
@futurebird@sauropods.win @lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net I think it goes farther back than that. The Montreal Protocol about the Ozone Layer scared the shit out of billionaires and exploiters. -
I was deeply disgusted with her. Scared for her as well. Almost to the point that I wanted to say something "do you really want to be visible in this way?" She seemed very happy in her moment. Thrilled with the attention, with breaking the rules by smoking, I'm certain she felt in control of her life and bright and powerful.
I also think she was very clearly on a very fast track to a very bad place.
But, why am I so judgemental of her? She's an obnoxious teen, this is not a crime.
By the way, have you watched "Little Senegal" ?
It's not a masterpiece, but it's quite good...(I have a vague memory of already having recommended it a few years ago, not sure whether it was to you)
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There were no white people, or wealthy people in this whole story I've told. The stories in the news occur all though society at different scales.
It matters how those stories play out. How they are talked about in mass media. These are examples. Affirmations of values.
Will anyone stand up for that girl, who looked 15 at most? Will she even have the ability to recognize abuse as abuse?
Some people would be happier if she had no such ideas.
I listen to what teens talk about. They see the wars we have started, they see the scandals and how they end. They are paying more attention than you might think.
Teen boy on the train two years ago talking about something that happened at a party. "Like a real G, like Donald m-f-in Trump."
Teens talking about the war on Iran in the lunch room "The US bombs whoever they want. No one can do anything about it."
(I hope the boy doesn't remember saying that it's so embaressing)
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That's true, but that's also how bullies become bullies.
It's a tragedy of human history that unloved people sometime become evil, and create for others the harshness they suffered from.
(getting promiscuous isn't the same a being evil, of course - what I mean is that unloved people do things that have bad consequences, even if they're not responsible for the lack of love and care they received)@lienrag
Absolutely true. We tend to recreate our experiences of society, especially under stress. And we only know what we experience. That's part of the whole issue with generational trauma. That's why many school teachers revert to strict discipline and explicit instruction under pressure.Daring to love each other, to risk the unknown in building a better society is scary. To have faith in human goodness while not being naive about societal realities is a tricky balance.
