I dunno, *can* we build #European alternatives to #Facebook and co?

[informapirata@poliverso.org]

Hi @zompetto

I think we don't really have a valid alternative to the Marketplace for example.

That's not the case. There's Flohmarkt, a federated app that's constantly improving and offers a sort of federated Amazon. Furthermore, Facebook has become indispensable for many people thanks to events and Facebook Groups, but even then we have alternatives: Friendica handles "events" very well, but there are also federated platforms specifically designed for event management (Mobilizon and Gancio). Today, it's also possible to federate WordPress events, thanks to the combination of three plugins (Activitypub, Eventbridge, and any event plugin).
As for Facebook Groups, we not only have systems that manage them from the ground up, like Friendica, but also the entire world I call Forumverso (Lemmy, NodeBB, Piefed, Mbin), which natively manages forum or Reddit-like platforms and can be managed very well by Mastodon. Additionally, there are Android apps for Mastodon like Raccoon (version 1.0 coming soon to the Play Store) that allow you to view groups much more intuitively than the standard Mastodon interface.

Instagram is pretty much covered by Mastodon and Pixelfed, but would it work at scale? (with millions or billions of photos and videos to store and moderate)

Large scale won't be a problem if there are many balanced medium-sized instances that don't overwhelm the subscribers (in fact, a few monster instances with more than 50,000 users can create veritable seismic waves on smaller instances). A truly federated and balanced environment offers far better moderation than commercial platforms, if only because in the Fediverse, the moderator-user ratio is a percentage made up of whole numbers, not fractions, as on commercial platforms.

Whatsapp is a lot harder. I don't think that Matrix is a good alternative

As in the previous case, Matrix (or XMPP) could be a good alternative if there's a true federation and not huge, unsustainable nodes in the long term. The Matrix Foundation, for example, is struggling precisely because it manages a huge centralized server for software designed to be distributed...

and unfortunately Signal is under US influence too.

The way Signal is managed, it wouldn't make a difference if it were American or European: the software is extremely reliable, and metadata collection is kept to a bare minimum.

@hpod16

[informapirata@poliverso.org]

@pa27 People over 40 still use Facebook thanks to two specific features: events and groups. Local groups, in particular, are an important way to find news about their town and to identify local buying and selling deals.
Some still use Messenger, but it's not a determining factor. The messaging system, however, is crucial for those who use Instagram, which now relies solely on passively viewing reels and actively writing messages to their contacts.

@hpod16

[wesdym@mastodon.social]

@hpod16 I don't understand this question. The actual THING is stupidly easy to make. Hell, I was often impressed with how weirdly primitive Facebook is, given when it exists. (Some earlier platforms were much more sophisticated.) The thing itself is easy to do. It's the PEOPLE USING IT and how it's managed that make the difference, and that's been done many times and can be done again.

Just make something and see who shows up, and try not to let it get out of hand. Why is this even an issue?

[wesdym@mastodon.social]

@matt That was in fact exactly how communites changed platforms in the past, and it always seemed to go well enough. So I don't know why it would be a problem now.

"Starting by [date], we'll be making official announcements primarily from [Masto acct], and much less over time on [corporate accts]. Join here."

[fresseng@universites.social]

@hpod16 Vote done ! Finger crossed ! Thanks for promoting Mastodon and the Fediverse !

For a Facebook alternative linked to Mastodon through ActivityPub, it's here : https://friendi.ca/

The overall alternative is already there. It is called the Fediverse. It needs money for servers and people taking care of them. And people like you for promotion.

[d1@autistics.life]

@matt @hpod16 To this I would add: consider adding a prominent, tappable Mastodon icon in the "walled-garden cabbage patch". I'm referring to the area at the bottom of the front page of the said organization's website (where #Facebook / #Twitter / #Threads / #Instagram / etc icons are proudly/shamefully shown). Those icons are the "rotten cabbages", while #Mastodon is a "good cabbage".

[slowmart@mastodon.org.uk]

@hpod16
Done

[acb@mastodon.social]

@hpod16 @briankrebs The ActivityPub fediverse will not be an alternative to Facebook until it has nuanced privacy controls. At the moment, unless you lock down your followers, effectively going dark to people not preapproved, your posts are effectively public. Which works fine when it’s a small cozy network of kind, thoughtful people, but as soon as the general public start using it, posting anything personal will start to have negative consequences.

[the_rebel@procial.tchncs.de]

@acb@mastodon.social that only if you rely on Mastodon as an access, there are other and better services.
Most of them do not want to know.

Misskey, Sharkey, Hubzilla, Friendica, etc. are the ways

@hpod16@eupolicy.social @briankrebs@infosec.exchange

[the_rebel@procial.tchncs.de]

@wesdym@mastodon.social This Facebook ‘alternative’ helped build the Fediverse and has been part of it from the very beginning. It’s called Friendica.
It’s just that the Mastodon fanboys don’t want to promote it, just like they don’t promote the many other services such as Loops, Pixelfed, Vernisage, etc.
After all, it’s competition for Mastodon, which operates as a company within the Fediverse and does corporate things.


@hpod16@eupolicy.social

[the_rebel@procial.tchncs.de]

@hpod16@eupolicy.social @HaraldKi@nrw.social
Recommend the whole Fediverse, not just the service with the tightest restrictions.

https://fediversum.info/ gives a brief overview of what’s available here.

Among the features that might be useful: closed groups (real groups, not the pseudo ones on Mastodon), user management, differentiated permissions, etc.
All of these have been around in the Fediverse for ages, just not on Mastodon

[smallcircles@social.coop]

@hpod16 yes, I sure did. For a moment some time ago there was talk that the open source strategy would be less pronounced. But this direct reference to decentralized social media, and building out on mastodon is beyond expectations again. Nice!

PS. I maintain the 3 fediverse-related delightful lists that give a good overview of how many ActivityPub based open source projects already exist. See: https://delightful.coding.social

[tusk@troet.cafe]

@hpod16
Each of the commercial platforms has 2 sides, behaving like a semi-transparent mirror. There is the side we can see and where we communicate. Technically speaking, this is trivial.
The other side, which can not be seen by us, is the side where the money circulates, where companies and political forces pay for what is deliberately shown to us.
We must not implement the other side.

[ananas@scicomm.xyz]

@hpod16 I think the better question is *should* we?

I don't really see Europe trying to build its own copies of exploitative monopolies as a good thing.

We might want something that fulfills the same purpose for communities, but I'd prefer to skip the dark patterns inherent in those platforms.

[pa27@mastodon.social]

@informapirata @hpod16 Most people I know are over 40... And none use it! YMMV!

[calcius@hol.ogra.ph]

@hpod16@eupolicy.social
Directed at the top poster in the screenshot: Dear rando-bro-on-the-internet - you are pointing at your elbow saying it's your arse. The question is not "can we" but "why should we want to?"

[luatic@mastodon.social]

@hpod16 the tech is already there and has been for a while, achieving widespread adoption is the difficulty

[dummzeuch@mastodon.social]

@hpod16 why would anybody want a European Facebook?

[jfml@mastodon.art]

@hpod16 Ooof, so many AI slop projects on that list

[dagger@chaos.social]

@hpod16 Done