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  3. Let's make a Pi Pico 2 powered video card.

Let's make a Pi Pico 2 powered video card.

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retrocomputing
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  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

    i bet there are people reading this that know how to actually use this stuff and are having themselves a sensible chuckle at my expense

    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
    wrote last edited by
    #98

    when you build the PLL you get a QIP file full of nonsense

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    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

      when you build the PLL you get a QIP file full of nonsense

      Link Preview Image
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      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
      wrote last edited by
      #99

      Okay, if I did all this right, i should have a 14.31818MHz clock on GPIO pin 1.

      Let's find out! To the workbench!

      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

        @bytex64 just out of curiosity what's the derivation of that how how did you drive it with a pico?

        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
        bytex64@awesome.garden
        wrote last edited by
        #100

        @gloriouscow IIRC it’s the regular fractional divider PWM mode but it was a while ago. I do have the source for it: https://github.com/bytex64/tt-munch/tree/main/clockgen

        It’s also not super exact. IIRC the closest it could get was like 25.150 or something.

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        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

          Right. This isn't completely baffling or anything

          isabel@chaos.socialI This user is from outside of this forum
          isabel@chaos.socialI This user is from outside of this forum
          isabel@chaos.social
          wrote last edited by
          #101

          @gloriouscow you won minesweeper!

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          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

            Okay, if I did all this right, i should have a 14.31818MHz clock on GPIO pin 1.

            Let's find out! To the workbench!

            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
            wrote last edited by
            #102

            Hot damn!

            looks just like the Pico clock - maybe it is my probe, lol.

            So, the cool thing about FPGAs, is that this clock signal now just ... lives inside the vast and mysterious gate goo within the chip. We connected it to GPIO1, but we can connect it to just about anything, internally or externally, and we can trigger other logic on it.

            It's like real legit design shit. It makes the Pico's PIO mode feel like a bit of a toy.

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            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

              Hot damn!

              looks just like the Pico clock - maybe it is my probe, lol.

              So, the cool thing about FPGAs, is that this clock signal now just ... lives inside the vast and mysterious gate goo within the chip. We connected it to GPIO1, but we can connect it to just about anything, internally or externally, and we can trigger other logic on it.

              It's like real legit design shit. It makes the Pico's PIO mode feel like a bit of a toy.

              Link Preview Image
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
              wrote last edited by
              #103

              So remember that digital logic simulation I made of the CGA card in Digital?

              Digital can export your entire simulation to Verilog.

              In theory, I just need to wire up the OSC pin to this 14.31818Mhz PLL clock, and wire the simulation's output pins to some GPIOs, route them out through a 244, and I'll have a picture on screen.

              surely it can't be that simple?

              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                I'm starting to think a pico is not the appropriate thing to build a video card with.

                all my fun ideas always end up with me concluding i should use an FPGA.

                FPGAs are like the crabs of electronics projects. everything wants to turn into an FPGA if you give it enough time.

                arclight@oldbytes.spaceA This user is from outside of this forum
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                arclight@oldbytes.space
                wrote last edited by
                #104

                @gloriouscow They also walk sideways really fast!

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                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                  So remember that digital logic simulation I made of the CGA card in Digital?

                  Digital can export your entire simulation to Verilog.

                  In theory, I just need to wire up the OSC pin to this 14.31818Mhz PLL clock, and wire the simulation's output pins to some GPIOs, route them out through a 244, and I'll have a picture on screen.

                  surely it can't be that simple?

                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #105

                  that would be a neat party trick but i wouldn't really learn anything and i'm sure the resulting Verilog would be spaghetti.

                  let's actually build this thing intentionally. Generating a clock was fun but i'm actually going to let the Pico continue to do that, and we'll treat a GPIO on the FPGA as the OSC input pin.

                  We'll divide it by 8, feed it to my Verilog MC6845 pre-configured for 80-column text mode, and wire up the HSYNC and VSYNC outputs to two more GPIOs.

                  We should get a 15.7kHz HSYNC and a 59.9kHz VSYNC out of that.

                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                    that would be a neat party trick but i wouldn't really learn anything and i'm sure the resulting Verilog would be spaghetti.

                    let's actually build this thing intentionally. Generating a clock was fun but i'm actually going to let the Pico continue to do that, and we'll treat a GPIO on the FPGA as the OSC input pin.

                    We'll divide it by 8, feed it to my Verilog MC6845 pre-configured for 80-column text mode, and wire up the HSYNC and VSYNC outputs to two more GPIOs.

                    We should get a 15.7kHz HSYNC and a 59.9kHz VSYNC out of that.

                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                    wrote last edited by
                    #106

                    This is incredibly cool.

                    This is a spot-on, 15.7kHz horizontal sync pulse generated the Cyclone V FPGA running my (very simplified) Motorola 6845 Verilog implementation!

                    Link Preview Image
                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                      This is incredibly cool.

                      This is a spot-on, 15.7kHz horizontal sync pulse generated the Cyclone V FPGA running my (very simplified) Motorola 6845 Verilog implementation!

                      Link Preview Image
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                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                      wrote last edited by
                      #107

                      The DE-10 Nano has four user switches. The CGA outputs 4 bit color. Very convenient. Since I don't have any video memory yet, I'm just going to assign each switch to a color component, and AND it with display enable from the 6845. This should give us a well defined display rectangle on screen.

                      That looks something like this

                          wire display_en = crtc_de;

                      assign CGA_R = display_en ? SW[0] : 1'b0;
                      assign CGA_G = display_en ? SW[1] : 1'b0;
                      assign CGA_B = display_en ? SW[2] : 1'b0;
                      assign CGA_I = display_en ? SW[3] : 1'b0;
                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                        The DE-10 Nano has four user switches. The CGA outputs 4 bit color. Very convenient. Since I don't have any video memory yet, I'm just going to assign each switch to a color component, and AND it with display enable from the 6845. This should give us a well defined display rectangle on screen.

                        That looks something like this

                            wire display_en = crtc_de;

                        assign CGA_R = display_en ? SW[0] : 1'b0;
                        assign CGA_G = display_en ? SW[1] : 1'b0;
                        assign CGA_B = display_en ? SW[2] : 1'b0;
                        assign CGA_I = display_en ? SW[3] : 1'b0;
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #108

                        Well, it took me a bit to figure out that the 47pF capacitors right at the D-SUB connector are not optional, specifically on HSYNC. This explains why the RGB2HDMI would sync to things the real monitor wouldn't.

                        But hey look, FPGA CGA video!

                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                          Well, it took me a bit to figure out that the 47pF capacitors right at the D-SUB connector are not optional, specifically on HSYNC. This explains why the RGB2HDMI would sync to things the real monitor wouldn't.

                          But hey look, FPGA CGA video!

                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                          wrote last edited by
                          #109

                          I didn't properly reset the green switch which is why we got cyan instead of blue. lol. But they do all work.

                          The FPGA is being fed the 14.31818 clock from the Pico to simulate the ISA bus' OSC pin as an input to some future card. I'm going simulate the ISA bus with Picos until I have some idea how I'm going to connect all this business to an actual PC's ISA bus.

                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                            I didn't properly reset the green switch which is why we got cyan instead of blue. lol. But they do all work.

                            The FPGA is being fed the 14.31818 clock from the Pico to simulate the ISA bus' OSC pin as an input to some future card. I'm going simulate the ISA bus with Picos until I have some idea how I'm going to connect all this business to an actual PC's ISA bus.

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                            wrote last edited by
                            #110

                            It's a bit silly to talk about building an FPGA-based CGA card without mentioning the Graphics Gremlin, by @tubetime

                            Link Preview Image
                            GitHub - schlae/graphics-gremlin: Open source retro ISA video card

                            Open source retro ISA video card. Contribute to schlae/graphics-gremlin development by creating an account on GitHub.

                            favicon

                            GitHub (github.com)

                            He's already made such a thing.

                            I'm interested in writing my own Verilog implementation, and of course I want to stick a Pico 2 W on it so we can stream video to it, but it seems sensible to fork the Gremlin instead of re-inventing the entire wheel.

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                              It's a bit silly to talk about building an FPGA-based CGA card without mentioning the Graphics Gremlin, by @tubetime

                              Link Preview Image
                              GitHub - schlae/graphics-gremlin: Open source retro ISA video card

                              Open source retro ISA video card. Contribute to schlae/graphics-gremlin development by creating an account on GitHub.

                              favicon

                              GitHub (github.com)

                              He's already made such a thing.

                              I'm interested in writing my own Verilog implementation, and of course I want to stick a Pico 2 W on it so we can stream video to it, but it seems sensible to fork the Gremlin instead of re-inventing the entire wheel.

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                              wrote last edited by
                              #111

                              @tubetime

                              There are some downsides, apparently this is a somewhat expensive card to build, just looking through forum discussions. But it's been five years, maybe there are better/cheaper FPGA options available today?

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                @tubetime

                                There are some downsides, apparently this is a somewhat expensive card to build, just looking through forum discussions. But it's been five years, maybe there are better/cheaper FPGA options available today?

                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                wrote last edited by
                                #112

                                The Gremlin uses a Lattice iCE40 HX FPGA that costs about $20. That's not outrageous.

                                It has 7680 LUTs.

                                The Cyclone V I'm using has 110,000, but then again this FPGA is massive overkill. It can emulate a Nintendo 64, after all.

                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                  The Gremlin uses a Lattice iCE40 HX FPGA that costs about $20. That's not outrageous.

                                  It has 7680 LUTs.

                                  The Cyclone V I'm using has 110,000, but then again this FPGA is massive overkill. It can emulate a Nintendo 64, after all.

                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #113

                                  A lot has changed in the last 5 years since the Gremlin was specc'd out.

                                  This is a Tang Nano 9k. It's about $22 on AliExpress.

                                  It has 8640 LUTs, onboard SPI flash, and an HDMI port (!)

                                  It could be socketed so you could take it out and use it for something else if you got bored with your ISA GlyphBlaster.

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                    A lot has changed in the last 5 years since the Gremlin was specc'd out.

                                    This is a Tang Nano 9k. It's about $22 on AliExpress.

                                    It has 8640 LUTs, onboard SPI flash, and an HDMI port (!)

                                    It could be socketed so you could take it out and use it for something else if you got bored with your ISA GlyphBlaster.

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #114

                                    There's even a Tang Nano 20K now that has 8MB (yes MB) of SRAM on-board, and an SD-card reader. It's $45.

                                    That's like your whole ass GlyphBlaster right there, just add bus buffers and a de-9 port.

                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                      I'm starting to think a pico is not the appropriate thing to build a video card with.

                                      all my fun ideas always end up with me concluding i should use an FPGA.

                                      FPGAs are like the crabs of electronics projects. everything wants to turn into an FPGA if you give it enough time.

                                      hackbroetchen@23.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                                      hackbroetchen@23.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                                      hackbroetchen@23.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #115

                                      @gloriouscow to be honest going FPGA would kill most of the tingle that project caused in my brain.

                                      I'm obsessed now with the idea of an IBM compatible build only out of picos.

                                      I will follow your progress with interest anyway. I like your way to think and your presentation style. Jeep up the food work. ❤

                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • hackbroetchen@23.socialH hackbroetchen@23.social

                                        @gloriouscow to be honest going FPGA would kill most of the tingle that project caused in my brain.

                                        I'm obsessed now with the idea of an IBM compatible build only out of picos.

                                        I will follow your progress with interest anyway. I like your way to think and your presentation style. Jeep up the food work. ❤

                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #116

                                        @Hackbroetchen No, I get where you're coming from. I did joke that using an FPGA makes it feel like it's no longer a hack.

                                        I start a lot of projects - its a bad habit of mine. It often seems like I abandon things, but there's a method to my madness. Many of my "new" projects are investments in acquiring knowledge and skills to finish older projects, while still getting to do fun stuff.

                                        I've wanted to know how to program FPGAs for a while - I need the power of an FPGA to make a version of my ArduinoX86 that can run chips at full speed.

                                        Making a digital logic simulation of the CGA would have otherwise been a distraction project, but making the Verilog MC6845 for it was the first step in learning FPGA programming. I wouldn't be sitting here with working video if I didn't already have a Verilog MC6845 written that I could just plop in.

                                        This has all been planned. These are all pieces of a puzzle - my ultimate goal is an art piece - a cycle-accurate IBM 5150 replicated in on an FPGA, with a real 8088 at its heart, using one of those beautiful white ceramic and gold packages. I want to mount the CPU socket in a cutout in something like polished black plexiglass. So you just see the CPU, as if it were running all on its own.

                                        It will be my love letter and tribute to the chip that started my journey into computing.

                                        ...All that said, I think I will still finalize the original, font-ROM based GlyphBlaster PCB. It's inexpensive, easy to install, and it's funny.

                                        Maybe I'll call the FPGA version the GlyphBlaster Pro.

                                        hackbroetchen@23.socialH 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                          @Hackbroetchen No, I get where you're coming from. I did joke that using an FPGA makes it feel like it's no longer a hack.

                                          I start a lot of projects - its a bad habit of mine. It often seems like I abandon things, but there's a method to my madness. Many of my "new" projects are investments in acquiring knowledge and skills to finish older projects, while still getting to do fun stuff.

                                          I've wanted to know how to program FPGAs for a while - I need the power of an FPGA to make a version of my ArduinoX86 that can run chips at full speed.

                                          Making a digital logic simulation of the CGA would have otherwise been a distraction project, but making the Verilog MC6845 for it was the first step in learning FPGA programming. I wouldn't be sitting here with working video if I didn't already have a Verilog MC6845 written that I could just plop in.

                                          This has all been planned. These are all pieces of a puzzle - my ultimate goal is an art piece - a cycle-accurate IBM 5150 replicated in on an FPGA, with a real 8088 at its heart, using one of those beautiful white ceramic and gold packages. I want to mount the CPU socket in a cutout in something like polished black plexiglass. So you just see the CPU, as if it were running all on its own.

                                          It will be my love letter and tribute to the chip that started my journey into computing.

                                          ...All that said, I think I will still finalize the original, font-ROM based GlyphBlaster PCB. It's inexpensive, easy to install, and it's funny.

                                          Maybe I'll call the FPGA version the GlyphBlaster Pro.

                                          hackbroetchen@23.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                                          hackbroetchen@23.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                                          hackbroetchen@23.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #117

                                          @gloriouscow looking forward to that!

                                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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