Following on from the @EUCommission Tech Sovereignty and Open Source Strategy (and Mastodon’s direct mention within it!) that was announced this week…
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@argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
you're not framing the problem correctly
you've identified a terrible aspect of a subsystem that can be fixed at a later time, not a roadblock showstopper
you are vibing on perfectionism and imagining your dubious objection somehow stands against the entire endeavour. it's concern trolling at best, whether you realize it or not
you should look to see that this problem is fixed in incremental improvement, which is the only thing that exists in this world
I don't mean to troll. I am genuinely afraid. This looks like an intentional design choice, and I really *really* don't like where this is going.
So far, these concerns have been ignored or dismissed by the developers of the Wallet. https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/eudi-wallet/wallet-development-documentation-public/-/work_items
And because it is the gatekeeper to everything else, FOSS people will not even be able to *discuss* fixing this problem. All communication is cut off.
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Following the @EUCommission Tech Sovereignty and Open Source Strategy (and Mastodon’s direct mention within it!) announced this week…
Our team is proud to have signed and contributed to the drafting of the European Social Stack Open Declaration alongside our peers in the #SocialWeb and #Fediverse: @anewsocial, @eurosky.social, @newsmast, Save Social, and @swf.
We are a movement, and stronger together.
Read the declaration, add your signature, and share: https://european.social/
@Mastodon @EUCommission @anewsocial @eurosky.social @newsmast @swf signing up to the anti-privacy digital ID is pretty poor tbh.
It will absolutely be used by authoritarian EU and non-EU states to limit access to information and spy on which websites people visited.
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@argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
you're not framing the problem correctly
you've identified a terrible aspect of a subsystem that can be fixed at a later time, not a roadblock showstopper
you are vibing on perfectionism and imagining your dubious objection somehow stands against the entire endeavour. it's concern trolling at best, whether you realize it or not
you should look to see that this problem is fixed in incremental improvement, which is the only thing that exists in this world
@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis in fairness the EU does have a habit of inward focussed gates meaning interaction with neighbours is actually very bad. The irony being that free movement stops at the borders.
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“The development of a system for a distributed identity that can be used across networks and beyond (e.g. the European Digital ID Wallet) and protects personal data.”
This reportedly requires the user to use a non-European non-open-source operating system and remote-attestation service.
And this is the gatekeeper controlling access to everything else.
And this will lock out users like me who are outside Europe.
I love open source and this absolutely breaks my heart.
@argv_minus_one @Mastodon @EUCommission
Without taking away from the good things, I agree this is a really bad thing.
@Gina has a solid grasp on the matter.
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I don't mean to troll. I am genuinely afraid. This looks like an intentional design choice, and I really *really* don't like where this is going.
So far, these concerns have been ignored or dismissed by the developers of the Wallet. https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/eudi-wallet/wallet-development-documentation-public/-/work_items
And because it is the gatekeeper to everything else, FOSS people will not even be able to *discuss* fixing this problem. All communication is cut off.
@argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
"I am genuinely afraid"
well yes, fear is the mind killer. fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. arguments from fear always fail. so stop being afraid. that's you defeating yourself
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@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis in fairness the EU does have a habit of inward focussed gates meaning interaction with neighbours is actually very bad. The irony being that free movement stops at the borders.
@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
that's not a problem with europe. every single nation on the planet has border controls. your complaint is with the human condition, not europe
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@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos it was not intended to be trolling. I just can imagine many people not wanting to be limited to only Europe. It was a humble question.
But as you also say, most probably it can be addressed later. I just wanted to know if this was already addressed at current state (I am sure many people did also think of this).
@esanchis @argv_minus_one @vladcampos
you're not trolling. i am responding to someone else. do you see their comment or is it hidden from you? if you can't see it and thus think i am responding to you that's a UI issue
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@argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
"I am genuinely afraid"
well yes, fear is the mind killer. fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. arguments from fear always fail. so stop being afraid. that's you defeating yourself
I needed to hear that right now. Thank you.
I did find this https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/#currentproposal which suggests that Fedi/XMPP/FOSS will be exempt from the upcoming age-control requirements, and therefore the discussion can continue here. But I'm not sure if that document is outdated or if I'm misunderstanding.
If anyone could clarify, I would appreciate it.
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@esanchis @argv_minus_one @vladcampos
you're not trolling. i am responding to someone else. do you see their comment or is it hidden from you? if you can't see it and thus think i am responding to you that's a UI issue
@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos you are right. I think now I see a different order in toots. Will try to check if it is a UI problem. Thanks!
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@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
that's not a problem with europe. every single nation on the planet has border controls. your complaint is with the human condition, not europe
@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis no. It’s Europe. There is a policy problem and that has been there for a while.
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@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis no. It’s Europe. There is a policy problem and that has been there for a while.
@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
i can't process the assertion that border controls is a uniquely european issue
selective criticism is not a coherent basis
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@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
i can't process the assertion that border controls is a uniquely european issue
selective criticism is not a coherent basis
@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis I think you’ve made the leap that I’m talking about border controls. I’m talking about implementing policy regarding using the EU wallet as a gateway into the social stack being a barrier to access outside of the EU (in either direction). If you really want to conflate this then please do get US Customs and Border to ask for id when accessing the US social systems. We will thank you.
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Following the @EUCommission Tech Sovereignty and Open Source Strategy (and Mastodon’s direct mention within it!) announced this week…
Our team is proud to have signed and contributed to the drafting of the European Social Stack Open Declaration alongside our peers in the #SocialWeb and #Fediverse: @anewsocial, @eurosky.social, @newsmast, Save Social, and @swf.
We are a movement, and stronger together.
Read the declaration, add your signature, and share: https://european.social/
@Mastodon
This obsession with “Europeanness” is really worrying. You suggest that European govt or business interference were not a threat to public-interest infrastructure. But they are.YES to everything related to decentralisation and democratic principles. NO to the Europe-first bs (and the EU ID wallet of course).
@EUCommission @anewsocial @eurosky.social @newsmast @swf -
@benroyce @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis I think you’ve made the leap that I’m talking about border controls. I’m talking about implementing policy regarding using the EU wallet as a gateway into the social stack being a barrier to access outside of the EU (in either direction). If you really want to conflate this then please do get US Customs and Border to ask for id when accessing the US social systems. We will thank you.
@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
i still don't understand your complaint because you are still insisting that controls, border or not, are uniquely european in nature
just to be clear: i don't have a problem with your argument about controls, i have a problem with you asserting it is as a europe's problem alone
it's a human problem
if you want to say europe should go another way, ok
but don't form such an argument on the basis of "this is a problem only europe has"
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Following the @EUCommission Tech Sovereignty and Open Source Strategy (and Mastodon’s direct mention within it!) announced this week…
Our team is proud to have signed and contributed to the drafting of the European Social Stack Open Declaration alongside our peers in the #SocialWeb and #Fediverse: @anewsocial, @eurosky.social, @newsmast, Save Social, and @swf.
We are a movement, and stronger together.
Read the declaration, add your signature, and share: https://european.social/
@Mastodon not a big fan of some of the language here. Atmosphere being labeled as "large-scale" or "planet-scale" like its proponents like to do is just pointless.
Bluesky is currently not significantly larger compared to the fediverse and it is shrinking... There's nothing particularly "large" about it. The platforms listed in this under Atmosphere are tiny compared to the fediverse since they want to avoid mentioning the only one with any adoption worth talking about in this context...
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@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
i still don't understand your complaint because you are still insisting that controls, border or not, are uniquely european in nature
just to be clear: i don't have a problem with your argument about controls, i have a problem with you asserting it is as a europe's problem alone
it's a human problem
if you want to say europe should go another way, ok
but don't form such an argument on the basis of "this is a problem only europe has"
@dianshuo @argv_minus_one @vladcampos @esanchis
furthermore, i do not understand this baseless fear europe would set up a social stack and limit interaction with the outside world
europe will not be isolating itself from the world. and merely because controls exist, in some form, does not mean europe is north korea
it's fearmongering
you are taking an aspect of incremental development, depicting it in an absurd, fearful light, and pretending it is a permanent hurdle
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@Mastodon not a big fan of some of the language here. Atmosphere being labeled as "large-scale" or "planet-scale" like its proponents like to do is just pointless.
Bluesky is currently not significantly larger compared to the fediverse and it is shrinking... There's nothing particularly "large" about it. The platforms listed in this under Atmosphere are tiny compared to the fediverse since they want to avoid mentioning the only one with any adoption worth talking about in this context...
@Mastodon that said, joint efforts to solve shared issues can certainly be a good thing as long as care is taken that they're not helping the $100M VC gorilla across the pond more than these decentralization/European efforts...
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@Mastodon
This obsession with “Europeanness” is really worrying. You suggest that European govt or business interference were not a threat to public-interest infrastructure. But they are.YES to everything related to decentralisation and democratic principles. NO to the Europe-first bs (and the EU ID wallet of course).
@EUCommission @anewsocial @eurosky.social @newsmast @swf@alineblankertz there's a point to it in that it is useful to have EU law be what governs our use of these technologies but I agree that it can be harmful if it is the only thing people focus on since I'd say a truly open community-governed platform is much better than a proprietary one even if ran by Europeans.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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@Mastodon
This obsession with “Europeanness” is really worrying. You suggest that European govt or business interference were not a threat to public-interest infrastructure. But they are.YES to everything related to decentralisation and democratic principles. NO to the Europe-first bs (and the EU ID wallet of course).
@EUCommission @anewsocial @eurosky.social @newsmast @swf@alineblankertz @EUCommission @anewsocial @newsmast @swf
@rwg
Could someone please explain, for dummies like me, what is goin on or the advantages of AT Protocol? Why is interesting for e. G. @Mastodon? Just because of bluesky? Would not be easier that @eurosky.social just creates an ActivityPub instance? Or go for #publicactivityactivitypub
From the website, I read: 1)controlled by a non profit organization and 2)
: Is the same EU trying to push #chatcontrol involved? I could not find if it is a W3C standard and everything seems quite confusing -
@Mastodon
This obsession with “Europeanness” is really worrying. You suggest that European govt or business interference were not a threat to public-interest infrastructure. But they are.YES to everything related to decentralisation and democratic principles. NO to the Europe-first bs (and the EU ID wallet of course).
@EUCommission @anewsocial @eurosky.social @newsmast @swfIn that regard, this article covers most of the dangers of assuming an European infrastructure is, per se, a net bonus - unless specific measures are taken to preserve such infrastructure from a hostile takeover from a non-democratic movement within the EU, that infrastructure becomes an engine for such a movement to target its political opponents and suppress free speech. The ID wallet can potentially be used to disenfranchise political opponents, and block entire groups of people from access to information, even under the right hands - and far more so under the wrong ones.
defenddemocracy.eu/eu-tech-dem…
@alineblankertz @EUCommission @anewsocial @newsmast @Mastodon @eurosky.social
