“Complying in advance” is when you go out of your way to do things that you don’t have to do to support authoritarian overreach.
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@danirabbit i definitely understand the perspective of following the laws passed as written lest facing literal ruin. Personally I read the outrage as an extreme fear of slow boiling. While right now it may just be entering a fake 18 in a text box. There is a fear of continued extrapolation (that to be fair hasn't actually happened yet). That the next step "Isn't that bad" and so on. Many see it as, one step down that path is one too many. Give a facist a cookie kind of thinking.
I understand this too and... im so conflicted. I agree we shouldn't give an inch on some things. But when you threaten good people trying to do the right thing and who are otherwise absolute allies... the calculation is never simple. Everyone is scared and hurting... im sorry FOSS creators like you are targeted like this... and im sorry we, those without, are all being taken advantage of by those "with".
@smolbrain
What I am angry about is that 40M citizens in California make such decisions for 10B potential users in the world. It's not 'comply with THE LAW', rather comply with the law in one pretty tiny fraction of the world that in good old colonialism manner wants to make every person on earth happy by enforcing whatever shit they think is right onto them without asking.
Bonus: It's at least possible that revealing the date of birth of a user by default is AGAINST THE LAW in the European Union. So implementing such measures tells 400M people their laws don't count because 40M people think they shouldn't. @danirabbit -
When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
I guess "not complying in advance" in such a case would be something like stating "I can't do otherwise now because I need money to support myself so won't shut down my company, feel free to switch to another OS" and not, absolutely not and never, try to diminish the severity of this attack on general-purpose computation ?
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I guess "not complying in advance" in such a case would be something like stating "I can't do otherwise now because I need money to support myself so won't shut down my company, feel free to switch to another OS" and not, absolutely not and never, try to diminish the severity of this attack on general-purpose computation ?
You could also add to the checkbox something akin to "are you're Gavin Newsom ?" and if they say yes "you're clearly too technically illiterate to be allowed to use a computer" and then reboot..
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@alice exactly. Like I’m not going to die on this particularly hill. If something actually harmful was happening it would be a different calculus. But this is so ridiculous to be like whelp better self destruct over it
@danirabbit @alice u know what this might even be good. now pron sites can stop asking me if im over 18 and just fetch the fake age from the os
/hj
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
@danirabbit I’m hopeful that https://agelesslinux.org/ gets there first—they are very explicitly trying to get sued over this, which should hopefully clarify the legal situation soon enough. Additionally, they make some good points—for instance, there may be the good faith effort defense, e.g. you could ask the user for their age once at installation/upgrade time, prevent the installation if it’s below 18, but never store it anywhere.
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@danirabbit I’m hopeful that https://agelesslinux.org/ gets there first—they are very explicitly trying to get sued over this, which should hopefully clarify the legal situation soon enough. Additionally, they make some good points—for instance, there may be the good faith effort defense, e.g. you could ask the user for their age once at installation/upgrade time, prevent the installation if it’s below 18, but never store it anywhere.
@danirabbit that’s also the point of their efforts—trying to protect you and others who are much smaller and much harder to find than someone who paints a target on their back and taunts the lawmakers.
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@danirabbit that’s also the point of their efforts—trying to protect you and others who are much smaller and much harder to find than someone who paints a target on their back and taunts the lawmakers.
@danirabbit furthermore, they make the legal argument (and I think their logic is sound) that if you don’t collect age data at all, it’s impossible to determine whether your users are children, and therefore impossible to determine if you actually violated the law. so the snake eats its own tail, or nothing at all in this case.
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@pojntfx I live in California
@danirabbit @pojntfx Come to Europe, we have good food and public healthcare
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@danirabbit @pojntfx Come to Europe, we have good food and public healthcare
@speaktrap @danirabbit @pojntfx I live in Europe, I'm sad to inform you I still have to pay rent
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@danirabbit @khw A real Unix / Linux person is born on 1970-01-01
Well I am 11 month younger than that but pretty close. And it has actually never crossed my mind before that I am born at the EPOC year.
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“Complying in advance” is when you go out of your way to do things that you don’t have to do to support authoritarian overreach.
“Complying in advance” is not when you follow laws that have passed and have clearly defined penalties
Learn what phrases mean, maybe
It will be interesting to see how this applies to meta distros like Gentoo where I assemble my own distro locally, far away from your legislation.
But you are probably right. Without the API sites will block me so you are likely right about the fight on the hill as well.
According to OSNews EU seems to plan to use a mobile app that is harder to run on open Androids than banking and general ID apps we use in Sweden. I think this is a better way to go.
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
@danirabbit I wonder of malicious compliance is in the cards. Comply with the requirement and add a note that it has been forced by the lobbying efforts of Meta
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