Well, I just returned from a VERY interesting #Indivisible #SantaFe (ISF) meeting.
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He spent about ten minutes speaking. He talked about numerous recent marches in Santa Fe where planners had not sought permits, the city had engaged in “proactive policing” at the events, and everybody was safe and fine. He talked about how asking about a permit and then making a different plan was like asking for a building permit, not wanting to pay for it, and proceeding anyway. He said, “the city would stop that.” 16/
At this point, I interrupted the Mayor, thanked him for his unscheduled remarks, and explained that I had a scheduled agenda item - fundraising - to discuss. This garnered much applause from meeting participants and a few angry/disgruntled reactions at, I think, me interrupting the mayor. 17/
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At this point, I interrupted the Mayor, thanked him for his unscheduled remarks, and explained that I had a scheduled agenda item - fundraising - to discuss. This garnered much applause from meeting participants and a few angry/disgruntled reactions at, I think, me interrupting the mayor. 17/
I covered the fundraising matters.
I then asked the group if they would like an unscheduled presentation from me on First Amendment law and legitimate government regulation of assembly and speech. I said I thought it apropos since NK3 in Santa Fe is going to be a celebration of democracy and civil rights, including First Amendment rights. 18/
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At this point, I interrupted the Mayor, thanked him for his unscheduled remarks, and explained that I had a scheduled agenda item - fundraising - to discuss. This garnered much applause from meeting participants and a few angry/disgruntled reactions at, I think, me interrupting the mayor. 17/
@heidilifeldman Badass!
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I covered the fundraising matters.
I then asked the group if they would like an unscheduled presentation from me on First Amendment law and legitimate government regulation of assembly and speech. I said I thought it apropos since NK3 in Santa Fe is going to be a celebration of democracy and civil rights, including First Amendment rights. 18/
Lots of applause and nods, so I went ahead. To illustrate how a law-biding organization would approach a city about permits for a closed street march, I referenced what ISF had done. I used a hypothetical city to illustrate a range of possible responses or approaches that would be consistent or even supportive of First Amendment rights to engage in political speech. I used the actual Santa Fe city’s responses to illustrate clear transgressions of well-settled First Amendment rights. 19/
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Lots of applause and nods, so I went ahead. To illustrate how a law-biding organization would approach a city about permits for a closed street march, I referenced what ISF had done. I used a hypothetical city to illustrate a range of possible responses or approaches that would be consistent or even supportive of First Amendment rights to engage in political speech. I used the actual Santa Fe city’s responses to illustrate clear transgressions of well-settled First Amendment rights. 19/
Mayor was there throughout.
Meeting concluded. I went out to vestibule, where I said I would be, to hand out fundraising materials. Very kindly, many meeting participants shook my hand or patted my back or gave words of support as I went to my post. Some had questions about the law, which I tried to answer. 20/
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Lots of applause and nods, so I went ahead. To illustrate how a law-biding organization would approach a city about permits for a closed street march, I referenced what ISF had done. I used a hypothetical city to illustrate a range of possible responses or approaches that would be consistent or even supportive of First Amendment rights to engage in political speech. I used the actual Santa Fe city’s responses to illustrate clear transgressions of well-settled First Amendment rights. 19/
Many asked me if I thought the city would change its position or would sua sponte close streets.
I said I doubted it. 20/
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Many asked me if I thought the city would change its position or would sua sponte close streets.
I said I doubted it. 20/
I’ll let you know if the City of #SantaFe course corrects and plans street closures for NK3. In the meantime, some information about #NoKings 3.0 in #SantaFe #NewMexico on March 28. It would help us out if ANYBODY interested registered for info from us via this portal. https://mobilize.us/s/htumHo. (Use an email mask to avoid having your email address sold - we can’t control that, we don’t run the Mobilize platform.) We’d love a record of how many support the event, want to know about it. 21/
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How to give the police a veto on protests without technically giving them a formal veto…
@DavidM_yeg @heidilifeldman I've lost count of the number of groups I've heard of who eventually decided to just stop asking for permission to exercise their rights.
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@heidilifeldman we just looked up what it costs here in San Francisco, and it was listed as $160-$2,400. Didn't see if that was per-block. But that's a whole lot less than what you've been quoted.
Editing to add: I'm not completely confident of those numbers, it was a quick search for permit costs here in San Francisco. Would be interesting to get actually publicly documented costs in various cities.
Found this: https://www.sf.gov/get-a-permit-to-close-a-street-for-a-special-event
I reserved a 36 hour street shutdown in Little Rock with about $500 cash deposit 10 years ago.
Two blocks and a major intersection reduced from 5 lanes to 1.
Had to cover about $1k in traffic barrier placement/removal --mainly because of the intersection-- and cops for security & traffic at roughly $40/hr. Had to have one cop on the entire time, five during busy time (when we were serving alcohol). Came to about $7k.
But that was for a Friday night thru Saturday night as a commercial enterprise.We did single afternoon block parties for under $1200. That's including the required two cops supervising booze on the street.
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I’ll let you know if the City of #SantaFe course corrects and plans street closures for NK3. In the meantime, some information about #NoKings 3.0 in #SantaFe #NewMexico on March 28. It would help us out if ANYBODY interested registered for info from us via this portal. https://mobilize.us/s/htumHo. (Use an email mask to avoid having your email address sold - we can’t control that, we don’t run the Mobilize platform.) We’d love a record of how many support the event, want to know about it. 21/
And if you have a few bucks to spare to help Indivisible Santa Fe pay for No Kings 3 here in northern New Mexico, that would be great! You know my mantra: small dollar donations add up!
Thanks for listening to this story. https://secure.actblue.com/donate/indivisiblesf371306689
A fundraising post on the ISF website: https://indivisiblesantafe.org/donate-to-no-kings-3/
22/22
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@DavidM_yeg @heidilifeldman I've lost count of the number of groups I've heard of who eventually decided to just stop asking for permission to exercise their rights.
@slowenough @DavidM_yeg I believe in trying to comply with appropriate permit procedures. If not appropriate, happy to pivot to plan B.
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Well, I just returned from a VERY interesting #Indivisible #SantaFe (ISF) meeting. Santa Fe’s new mayor was summoned to the meeting by a #NewMexico state legislator in attendance. This led to me having to supply the meeting with an impromptu presentation on First Amendment law and why the City of Santa Fe cannot lawfully charge ISF $25,000+ for a closed streets permit for #NoKings on March 28. 1/
@heidilifeldman It's wild to me, that Americans have to pay vast sums to exercise free speech while in Germany organizing a protest is free (though authorities can stipulate that organizers bring a certain number of stewards to keep people on the route, and presumably there is a possible cost related to equipping them with bibs).
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And if you have a few bucks to spare to help Indivisible Santa Fe pay for No Kings 3 here in northern New Mexico, that would be great! You know my mantra: small dollar donations add up!
Thanks for listening to this story. https://secure.actblue.com/donate/indivisiblesf371306689
A fundraising post on the ISF website: https://indivisiblesantafe.org/donate-to-no-kings-3/
22/22
@heidilifeldman Interesting thread! Great insights to behind the scenes community organizing. We use to tell the police when and where we were going to do a protest or march. We'd tell 'em we'll stay on the sidewalks and not block them. Come the day of action, hey, it's not our fault 2000 showed up and spilled into the streets instead of the 200 we thought would attend.
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I’ll let you know if the City of #SantaFe course corrects and plans street closures for NK3. In the meantime, some information about #NoKings 3.0 in #SantaFe #NewMexico on March 28. It would help us out if ANYBODY interested registered for info from us via this portal. https://mobilize.us/s/htumHo. (Use an email mask to avoid having your email address sold - we can’t control that, we don’t run the Mobilize platform.) We’d love a record of how many support the event, want to know about it. 21/
@heidilifeldman@mastodon.social From a German point of view, it all sounds very strange. The German Grundgesetz (constitution) was written in 1949 under US supervision. Demonstrating is a fundamental right. Demonstrations are not permited, but registered (angemeldet). Registration means that the organizer informs the state when and where a demonstration will take place and how many participants are expected. Usually, the police then appear at the demonstration site and discuss with the organizer whether the demonstration will take place on the street or on the sidewalk. In Berlin alone, 8,000 demonstrations take place every year. It is a ritual in which the police and demonstrators know and adhere to their respective roles. After violent incidents, the state may attempt to collect damages. However, this is usually rejected by the courts. For years, the Love parade with 1 Million participants was the largest demonstration in Berlin. When the state no longer wanted to accept it as a political demonstration, it moved elsewhere. Today a renewed love parade demonstration is taking place in the summer. The organizers are taking great care to broadcast political demands over loudspeakers during the demonstration to avoid fees. -
@heidilifeldman@mastodon.social From a German point of view, it all sounds very strange. The German Grundgesetz (constitution) was written in 1949 under US supervision. Demonstrating is a fundamental right. Demonstrations are not permited, but registered (angemeldet). Registration means that the organizer informs the state when and where a demonstration will take place and how many participants are expected. Usually, the police then appear at the demonstration site and discuss with the organizer whether the demonstration will take place on the street or on the sidewalk. In Berlin alone, 8,000 demonstrations take place every year. It is a ritual in which the police and demonstrators know and adhere to their respective roles. After violent incidents, the state may attempt to collect damages. However, this is usually rejected by the courts. For years, the Love parade with 1 Million participants was the largest demonstration in Berlin. When the state no longer wanted to accept it as a political demonstration, it moved elsewhere. Today a renewed love parade demonstration is taking place in the summer. The organizers are taking great care to broadcast political demands over loudspeakers during the demonstration to avoid fees.
@Life_is From a U.S. legal point of view, it was all very strange. I’ve had different experiences with different municipalities and authorities over the years. Many take an approach similar to the one you describe in Germany.
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At this point, I explained that these fees were, IMO, an unconstitutional burden on ISF’s freedom of expression. If the police would not take a more reasonable approach, ISF would revert to announcing a recommended route for a sidewalk march, something which does not require a permit. This, by the way, was what the city special event official kept mentioning as an alternative to closing the streets. 9/
> an unconstitutional burden on ISF’s freedom of expression
Also on the right to petition for a redress of grievances?
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I won’t belabor all the happenings at the second meeting. Suffice it to say that when we said we had thoughts about a route that should, based on their information provided at the first meeting, reduce costs, the police said that actually the cost for the original route was not a minimum of $11,000, it was minimum of $25,000. Moreover, police said, that would be minimum cost for ANY street closures. 8/
@heidilifeldman
That's a rather steep amount for the local fascists to be charging to beat up and/or gas the people paying it to exercise a fundamental democratic right
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@Life_is From a U.S. legal point of view, it was all very strange. I’ve had different experiences with different municipalities and authorities over the years. Many take an approach similar to the one you describe in Germany.
@heidilifeldman
It should be viewed as straight up supression tactics. -
@heidilifeldman
It should be viewed as straight up supression tactics.@heidilifeldman @Life_is @dzwiedziu "you can have free speech and demonstrations when you have enough money" This is, where it leads to.
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@heidilifeldman @Life_is @dzwiedziu "you can have free speech and demonstrations when you have enough money" This is, where it leads to.
@Dodo_sipping
Not quite, as the 11-25k figures were just “preliminary”. So I can easily imagine if ISF would gather all the required initial sum the end bill could easily balloon after the protest, enough to force the organisation into working to repay instead of organising.It's not about free speech being costly, it's about perpetually barring it from organised people.
