i've heard a few times that "waymos will make streets safer" so i went and looked up sf's traffic fatality statistics and they're pretty much identical
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i don't want to be all "you are not immune to propaganda" but a lot of these arguments prey on optimism and hope that technology can lift people up
but when you start to examine the rhetoric, like "what if <imaginary circumstance where the tools are useful>"
or "bad thing? that's a lack of training and dicipline"
it just feels like gun logic in a new outfit
"yes your problem is capitalism" yes
arguing about the technology in a vacuum is a debate club tactic, a way of denying the real consequences and moving the focus to imaginary benefits
i am not capable of putting on the pom poms and cheering for supply-side economic arguments that paper over the real world harms
i don't care if tests pass or if it works on your machine, i care how it acts in production
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"yes your problem is capitalism" yes
arguing about the technology in a vacuum is a debate club tactic, a way of denying the real consequences and moving the focus to imaginary benefits
i am not capable of putting on the pom poms and cheering for supply-side economic arguments that paper over the real world harms
i don't care if tests pass or if it works on your machine, i care how it acts in production
the worst bit? i still like machine learning, i still think stochastic approaches can have benefits
but if i wrote software that pushed vulnerable teenagers to suicide, or enabled people to sexually harass strangers with pornographic forgeries
i would take a step back from the keyboard and ask my good buddy hans, "are we the baddies"
or at least, i hope i'd ask those hard questions
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the worst bit? i still like machine learning, i still think stochastic approaches can have benefits
but if i wrote software that pushed vulnerable teenagers to suicide, or enabled people to sexually harass strangers with pornographic forgeries
i would take a step back from the keyboard and ask my good buddy hans, "are we the baddies"
or at least, i hope i'd ask those hard questions
we're destroying the open web
we're burning down the closest thing i've ever seen in my life to the library of alexandria
and people are explaining to me how warm it keeps their hands, and maybe, in the future, the ashes will contain the secrets of the universe
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i've heard a few times that "waymos will make streets safer" so i went and looked up sf's traffic fatality statistics and they're pretty much identical
i mean, there is a slight increase over the last two years but there's sufficient variance to avoid suggesting a trend
as i understand it, waymos tend to take people off busses and other forms of transit, rather than out of their own cars
so i'm doubtful it will lower deaths on the road, just the number of busses
@tef I think it gives people more options than just a bus or drive or bike and any safety improvements, however small, are welcomed. Imagine when Uber just started until flash ahead and waymo basically replaced human drivers. It will be half the time to get to buses with 15-30 people.
I wonder if the bus drivers have a union
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we're destroying the open web
we're burning down the closest thing i've ever seen in my life to the library of alexandria
and people are explaining to me how warm it keeps their hands, and maybe, in the future, the ashes will contain the secrets of the universe
i have been told that "the technical is social before it is technical" but only now do i realise this is just another way of saying "first as tragedy, then as farce"
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@tef I think it gives people more options than just a bus or drive or bike and any safety improvements, however small, are welcomed. Imagine when Uber just started until flash ahead and waymo basically replaced human drivers. It will be half the time to get to buses with 15-30 people.
I wonder if the bus drivers have a union
@MeaningfulBits "this technology that reduces worker agency will improve things for people on low incomes" is a reach
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@MeaningfulBits "this technology that reduces worker agency will improve things for people on low incomes" is a reach
@tef what am I reaching for? My only claim was "it's going to take half the time to get to 30 person buses then it did with a 3 person car."
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i have been told that "the technical is social before it is technical" but only now do i realise this is just another way of saying "first as tragedy, then as farce"
the simple answer is that none of the good futures we imagine happen by accident. and none of the people with power can be trusted to make better things happen
and now i'm asking myself if medieval peasants looked at the clock in the bell tower and told each other
"in the future, we'll have a weekend off, as they'll be able to see how long and hard we've worked"
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@tef what am I reaching for? My only claim was "it's going to take half the time to get to 30 person buses then it did with a 3 person car."
@tef also I guess "it gives people more options" which is true.
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@tef also I guess "it gives people more options" which is true.
@tef I also didn't mention "improve things" or "low income"
I don't know why you'd mention that.
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we're destroying the open web
we're burning down the closest thing i've ever seen in my life to the library of alexandria
and people are explaining to me how warm it keeps their hands, and maybe, in the future, the ashes will contain the secrets of the universe
@tef fire was lit even before communities started migrating to discord. pouring one out for death of the semantic web.
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@tef fire was lit even before communities started migrating to discord. pouring one out for death of the semantic web.
@otakup0pe when i visited the internet archive back in 2013, i took the tour
a big part of the speech involved "the natural enemy of libraries are governments" and explaining who or what would most likely see the death of the archive
and joking "we hope that by being in a church, they might have some second thoughts"
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the simple answer is that none of the good futures we imagine happen by accident. and none of the people with power can be trusted to make better things happen
and now i'm asking myself if medieval peasants looked at the clock in the bell tower and told each other
"in the future, we'll have a weekend off, as they'll be able to see how long and hard we've worked"
What's the point of working long hours, there's only so much you can do to a wheat field
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i've heard a few times that "waymos will make streets safer" so i went and looked up sf's traffic fatality statistics and they're pretty much identical
i mean, there is a slight increase over the last two years but there's sufficient variance to avoid suggesting a trend
as i understand it, waymos tend to take people off busses and other forms of transit, rather than out of their own cars
so i'm doubtful it will lower deaths on the road, just the number of busses
@tef The Waymo vehicles mimic human drivers too well: loitering and blocking crosswalks for right on red and tailgating cyclists on the road. Folks will say “gotcha; they’re safe,” but this misses a bigger intangible: these vehicles are a fucking nuisance and clog the road. Being safer than a human while being more plentiful and annoying is not a significant improvement.
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we're destroying the open web
we're burning down the closest thing i've ever seen in my life to the library of alexandria
and people are explaining to me how warm it keeps their hands, and maybe, in the future, the ashes will contain the secrets of the universe
@tef unfortunately, the original Big Web Dream began to die with the advent of mobile-first and social media. Now its death is only accelerating. Read @timbl's book about that.
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we're destroying the open web
we're burning down the closest thing i've ever seen in my life to the library of alexandria
and people are explaining to me how warm it keeps their hands, and maybe, in the future, the ashes will contain the secrets of the universe
@tef The operative word here is”open”, it is not possible to extract rent from an open resource, as western societies are built on rent extraction the open web had to go.
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sure enough machine translation has reasonably proven itself as a mostly public good, albeit at the expense of the translation industry
so i am aware that good things can come with bad prices, but i haven't really seen much good and i am seeing a lot of bad things
it literally breaks my heart that the public web now sits behind a proof of work system, forcing strangers to mine coins to buy access to webpages
because a bunch of tech companies are desperate for an poison-free training set
@tef translations are alreaddy getting notable worse by this. Its in some cases clearly visible there is nonhuman involved anymore.
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i don't want to be all "you are not immune to propaganda" but a lot of these arguments prey on optimism and hope that technology can lift people up
but when you start to examine the rhetoric, like "what if <imaginary circumstance where the tools are useful>"
or "bad thing? that's a lack of training and dicipline"
it just feels like gun logic in a new outfit
@tef hah, I was just comparing LLMs to assault riffles in one of the Node.js meetings!
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What's the point of working long hours, there's only so much you can do to a wheat field
@EndlessMason @tef "The origin point for nearly all of those 'you work harder than a medieval peasant' memes and articles is Juliet Schor’s The Overworked American (1993). The argument has been debunked quite a few times…" — https://acoup.blog/2025/09/05/collections-life-work-death-and-the-peasant-part-ivb-working-days/
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sure enough machine translation has reasonably proven itself as a mostly public good, albeit at the expense of the translation industry
so i am aware that good things can come with bad prices, but i haven't really seen much good and i am seeing a lot of bad things
it literally breaks my heart that the public web now sits behind a proof of work system, forcing strangers to mine coins to buy access to webpages
because a bunch of tech companies are desperate for an poison-free training set
@tef machine translation is only helpful if you cant speak a language and want to understand someone.
I once ordered some stuff of a czech homepage and was really happy the machine translation was there to help me make sense of words.
but machine translation is nothing that can be used without someone who knows context, style, humor, etc. if you want to convey the meaning, need to 100% sure or culturally accurate. KI can do none of this. Professional Translators can.
