Bullshit.
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@msbellows
You're constructing a straw man to fight. I told you my position.@katrinakatrinka I'm truly not. I'm trying to understand whether you think he should not have been allowed to blurt vulgarities, or just this one vulgarity in particular; whether they should have bleeped out all vulgarities, or just this one. It's a substantial difference, to an antiracist person with Tourette's.
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@stellarsarah Would you say the same if he had cursed without saying the n-word?
@msbellows actually yes. It sounds like he was just yelling "fuck you" at people way too much too, which isn't really okay in this setting either. It sounds like being in a crowd triggers him and he perhaps shouldn't be there, except maybe in a soundproof booth.
The racial abuse that he hurled at Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo was absolutely unacceptable (and doubly so that the BBC let it air).
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@katrinakatrinka I'm truly not. I'm trying to understand whether you think he should not have been allowed to blurt vulgarities, or just this one vulgarity in particular; whether they should have bleeped out all vulgarities, or just this one. It's a substantial difference, to an antiracist person with Tourette's.
@msbellows
What you propose is not what happened. Therefore, not my argument. I'm not interested in "what ifs"."A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man -
@venitamathias Even if it's Tourette's,they should have bleeped this out. And removed the guy from the venue. Apologies and sympathy not accepted.
@IveyJanette @venitamathias they didn't edit this out, but they censored a Palestinian filmmaker saying "Free Palestine". this were deliberate decisions by the BBC.
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@rochelimit Anyway I'm not trying to get in a back and forth. But I thought your comment was super condescending and pedantic, and totally lacking in any sort of empathy for Black people.
So, you sit with that and make it your own problem, please, instead of implying you know how we ought to react to slurs.
@thiswomanswerk
My first comment was to agree with a black poster, that it is wrong to suggest that a person with a neurological condition should be kept away from the ceremony because words, which do not represent that person's feelings, will cause upset.The idea that one innocent group should be protected at the expense of another is something worth debating, isn't it? When balancing rights, the importance of context cannot be ignored.
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@thiswomanswerk
My first comment was to agree with a black poster, that it is wrong to suggest that a person with a neurological condition should be kept away from the ceremony because words, which do not represent that person's feelings, will cause upset.The idea that one innocent group should be protected at the expense of another is something worth debating, isn't it? When balancing rights, the importance of context cannot be ignored.
@thiswomanswerk
Some context:Harm was definately caused (should have been bleeped, BBC has apologised)
The context is British rather than Anerican cultural history and rights balancing.
The man involved is reported thus:
"Davidson, a Tourette's campaigner from Galashiels in Scotland, who was made an MBE in 2019, shouted loudly several times before and during the Bafta ceremony.
He said on Monday that he was "deeply mortified if anyone considers my involuntary tics to be intentional or to carry any meaning".
"I have spent my life trying to support and empower the Tourette's community and to teach empathy, kindness and understanding from others and I will continue to do so," he said in a statement.
"I chose to leave the auditorium early into the ceremony as I was aware of the distress my tics were causing."
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@oldclumsy_nowmad Oh, that's a PERFECT example of what went wrong with BAFTA! That other driver isn't at fault for blanking out, but he IS at fault for choosing to drive if he knew it might be hazardous to other people.
Yes! A medical condition doesn't excuse us from responsibility. It's appropriate to be angry when people knowingly put us at risk.
However, it isn't right to infer, without additional evidence, that a socially unacceptable behavior necessarily reveals a secret "mindset" of the offender. And it's really dumb to think like this: "There! I knew it! That bald guy tried to run me off the road! It's true that bald men hate people with long hair like mine!"
Thanks for posting!
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@msbellows
What you propose is not what happened. Therefore, not my argument. I'm not interested in "what ifs"."A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man@katrinakatrinka He did both. I'm asking which one troubled you. You're being evasive, which means you see this as an argument rather than a discussion, and therefore you're not worth my time. Goodbye and be well, if that's possible for you.
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@Jakra And to many of us older Blacks,that word is an insult. Period.
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@IveyJanette @venitamathias they didn't edit this out, but they censored a Palestinian filmmaker saying "Free Palestine". this were deliberate decisions by the BBC.
@cairobraga @venitamathias The BBC did its version of the same selective editing that Fox routinely does whenever Trump shows up at sporting events not named NASCAR or LIV Golf: edit out the boos.
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This is why the apology is not being accepted:
#blackmastodon https://newsone.com/6850861/black-people-dont-have-accept-john-davidson-apology/
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@cairobraga @venitamathias The BBC did its version of the same selective editing that Fox routinely does whenever Trump shows up at sporting events not named NASCAR or LIV Golf: edit out the boos.
@IveyJanette @cairobraga
Great example. We know what's up. -
@ErickaSimone @venitamathias Blocked for ableism. Be kinder.
@msbellows @ErickaSimone You should block me because I will never enable racist behavior. Period.
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@IveyJanette @cairobraga
Great example. We know what's up.@venitamathias @cairobraga When Trump was at the Super Bowl last year and at the Commanders game? Fox piped in fake cheers,even though the crowd booed him vociferously. ESPN did the same thing when he showed up at the US Open in Queens. Conform or be cast out.
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"Apologies are extended 'if you are offended.'
If. As though the harm is hypothetical and the racial slur exists only in the realm of personal sensitivity. If. As though what happened depends on whether Black people choose to register it. That phrasing shifts the harm from something that happened to something people might feel. The problem subtly relocates from the racial act to Black folks’ reaction."
@PeachMcD I mean I think to ppl like roche harm to black people is indeed hypothetical--given I had to nearly cuss them out for them to even acknowledge the use of the slur was harmful.
Now it's context this and context that, except, conveniently, for the context of the harm it causes Black people
Their use of "debate" is very revealing because the ppl in the thread they initially responded were not in a debate. They were in pain. But Black pain is always up for debate and discussion on here.
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@katrinakatrinka He did both. I'm asking which one troubled you. You're being evasive, which means you see this as an argument rather than a discussion, and therefore you're not worth my time. Goodbye and be well, if that's possible for you.
@msbellows
"I'm asking..."You're "refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction."
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@msbellows @ErickaSimone You should block me because I will never enable racist behavior. Period.
@venitamathias @msbellows let him know we know he only blocks black women holding him accountable. Not other white people doing the same though.
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@PeachMcD I mean I think to ppl like roche harm to black people is indeed hypothetical--given I had to nearly cuss them out for them to even acknowledge the use of the slur was harmful.
Now it's context this and context that, except, conveniently, for the context of the harm it causes Black people
Their use of "debate" is very revealing because the ppl in the thread they initially responded were not in a debate. They were in pain. But Black pain is always up for debate and discussion on here.
I'm quick to mute tone deaf reply guys & to follow/boost #BIPOC voices here
X is such a toxic space - I want #BlackMastodon to be a place folks can replicate that synergy & freedom without the ads & algorithms
Solidarity from Tacoma!
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@thiswomanswerk
My first comment was to agree with a black poster, that it is wrong to suggest that a person with a neurological condition should be kept away from the ceremony because words, which do not represent that person's feelings, will cause upset.The idea that one innocent group should be protected at the expense of another is something worth debating, isn't it? When balancing rights, the importance of context cannot be ignored.
I am begging you to stop telling Black people how they should respond to experiencing racism.
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@venitamathias @msbellows let him know we know he only blocks black women holding him accountable. Not other white people doing the same though.
@ErickaSimone @msbellows He should protect his peace. I definitely protect mine.
