There are many problems with #USA #democracy

[catdragon@mastodon.world]

@benroyce @flipper

Glory

[thad@brontosin.space]

@benroyce I support the NPVIC but I wouldn't say it *kills* the EC. It kills its most pernicious effect, and that's a good thing, but it's still a first-past-the-post system that allows candidates to win without a majority of the vote. It would have stopped Trump in 2016 but not 2024.

It might be the best we can do without a constitutional amendment (assuming it survives the courts), so I support it for that reason. It's a good first step but it's not the last one.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@grumble209

"It would sure be nice if it happened, though"

if that is what you believe, then put that in your words

why bring negativity and cynicism in your words on politics?

ever hear of self-fulfilling prophecy?

if you really believe it would be nice if something good happened, *say* that, *work* for that

if you are authentic, you can do some good by accentuating the positive

otherwise you merely become a shadow of the well-known troll psyop angle to suppress the vote with defeatism

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@Thad

oh yeah. there is a lot more to clean up

FPTP. gerrymandering. voter disenfranchisement. etc

it's just a nice step

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@grumble209

do not center your thoughts on the DNC

this is an error in perspective

fuck the DNC

the DNC is not alien omnipotent creatures from Alpha Centauri

in fact, they are quite weak

so we vote. and replace them

stop centering your thoughts on the DNC. stop it. ignore them, they are fragile

when people just vote for the left candidate, in the primaries and the general, we do a DNC takeover

when people whine about the DNC, they wind up not voting, so the DNC stays in power

you dig?

[rvlara23@mastodon.social]

@benroyce

I do believe it will fall eventaully. I would love to see it happen before I die.

It's antiquated and dated and rooted in voter suppression at this point.

And the reality is it would benefit both parties. Blue voters in Oklahoma and Red voters in California will finally feel like their vote actually matters.

[whitecattamer@mastodon.online]

@Thad @benroyce While that’s true, think about how different the world would be if Trump had been sent packing in 2016.

[beggarmidas@mastodon.social]

@benroyce Whatever led you to believe these midterms will be free & fair in any way? My aren't you a trusting soul. Bought any bridges yet?

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@Beggarmidas

the votes are controlled by the states

red states may do some shit, but they're already red

cynicism isn't intelligence, in fact it's the weak easily pliable mind of willing submission to fascism

what you represent, my good friend, is willing acceptance of the unacceptable. that's all your cynicism means. that's what your cynicism leads to. that's the quality of your mind. a rather garden variety flavor of cognitive weakness, and rather boring of you

loser

[beggarmidas@mastodon.social]

@benroyce *sigh* No, Pollyanna. I'm just aware that a cult of personality is already actively looking to bend the election in every way they accused their rivals of since 2020. That they'll deploy the cambridge analytica 2.0 they used to bend the last election causing MILLIONS to sit out the vote on the midterms too.
Boss Tweeds playbook is back in town, and will curb stomp your california dreaming hippie ass if you presume any part of this upcoming election will be business as usual.
Jackass.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@Beggarmidas

yes it is true reality looks like airhead optimism to a rotten pathetic cynic

but your real crime is just how boring and pedestrian you are

you're typical. a dime a dozen. just another garden variety specimen in the endless sea of midwit cynicism. you all think you have special insight. you're all just articulating the small confines of your dim craniums

very easy, very dull, and very irrelevant

[thad@brontosin.space]

@WhiteCatTamer Or Bush in 2000.

[dotyk@mastodon.social]

@benroyce I am not an #American, but I have worked with Americans a lot, so I consider them mostly very nice, but very specific people.
I would call them "a person who is guaranteed to have a #gun in his pocket".
I completely agree with you that those who won by votes at that time would have won better.
But I never cease to remember what "weapons" the majority has when it is not always right.
So far, your system limits such a majority from the ability to use what #weapons.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@dotyk

the love of guns in the usa is one hell of a delusional, fucked up and deeply weird religion

i understand owning a shotgun on a farm. it makes sense

but hotheads walking around with handguns are introducing a level of jeopardy in their lives, predicated on believing they are some sort of paladin or superhero. when all they are really doing is introducing death, perhaps their own, in situations that never have to go there. or even if it does go there, it's rolling the dice on your life

[gimulnautti@mastodon.green]

@benroyce Yes, kill it with fire! Fractional representation, not first-past-the-post while you’re at it.

There won’t be possibilities for viable third parties unless you make the system actually democratic. As it stands it’s bureaucratic. Literally bureaucracymaxing, compared to actually viable democracies especially in Europe.

[gimulnautti@mastodon.green]

@benroyce @dotyk Some kind of simulation of an identity that’s long since gone. Nostalgia, like a lot of other things that feel like they make sense but don’t.

[opethminded@mstdn.social]

@benroyce The only system more easy to rig than the popular vote is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Just wait til some shitbag TX or FL governor disqualifies a few million early ballots and forces every blue state to turn red. Then its fatal flaw will be apparent. The real solution to fixing the Electoral College is to ban antidemocratic winner-take-all award of electors by 48 states in favor of proportional award of electors. Then the EC always matches the popular vote regardless.

[missconstrue@mefi.social]

@benroyce @xdydx

But Ben my darling man, this does depend on the democrats not being feckless pantywaists who insist on bipartisanship, as they do.

The thing is, the GOP move as a unit, that is why such a small minority of them have such outsized power. No matter how insane dear leader’s demands are, they are right there, slavering to fulfill them.

Democrats cannot, must not be willing to give them cover or assistance. They are cowardly conniving little traitors, and to insist on bipartisanship at this time in history is to concede to the terrorist holding us hostage.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@MissConstrue @xdydx

i dislike this depiction of the situation because it centers the argument on centrist democrats

i agree with you they suck

but

my problem is it doesn't matter. you show up in the primaries and choose left. you show up in the general and forestall MAGA, ideally with a real left candidate

that's it

but centering centrists in the discussion is a voting turnoff. we don't have to think about them, so why care about them?

just ignore them and replace them

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@opethminded

i don't have a problem with your argument, i have a problem with the ease of your argument

we both agree we need to fix it. but *how* do we fix it. and your solution, while cleaner, is a lot harder to achieve

so we go the NPVIC. not because it's cleaner, but because it's more doable

and that doesn't mean we're done, we institute real fixes once we can

and as for stealing votes: that's already what we have with the EC. so we're looking for better, not perfect