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  3. "There are no more juniors.

"There are no more juniors.

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  • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

    @felix_eckhardt @tante

    Even Moore’s law has flattened out because we’re reaching the physical limit of electronics. The only way compute power has really expanded is by stacking compute cells on top of each other.

    The faster speeds dramatically increase. I think the relationship is a low exponentiation so more compute power faster speeds demands more and more power delivery and generates more and more heat. This is not a good combination.

    felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
    felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
    felix_eckhardt@det.social
    wrote last edited by
    #31

    @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante Hm, i am not conviced:

    Link Preview Image
    GPU computational performance per dollar

    An interactive visualization from Our World in Data.

    favicon

    Our World in Data (ourworldindata.org)

    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • felix_eckhardt@det.socialF felix_eckhardt@det.social

      @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante Hm, i am not conviced:

      Link Preview Image
      GPU computational performance per dollar

      An interactive visualization from Our World in Data.

      favicon

      Our World in Data (ourworldindata.org)

      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
      wrote last edited by
      #32

      @felix_eckhardt @tante

      I think the thing to be pointed out is that cost of the systems versus their operational costs are very different things and this page gives you an idea of what the power draw is. Primarily the cost is in increased energy, demand and waste.

      This is what I meant. Is that Moore’s law, is only been kept alive by stacking components on the silicon. For GPU this is intrinsic and ideal. You can’t contravene thermodynamics though.

      Link Preview Image
      12 best GPUs for AI and machine learning in 2026 | Blog — Northflank

      Compare the 12 best GPUs for AI in 2026: B200, H200, H100, RTX 4090 & more. Specs, performance & costs. Deploy with Northflank's cloud platform.

      favicon

      Northflank — Deploy any project in seconds, in our cloud or yours. (northflank.com)

      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

        "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

        Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

        Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

        favicon

        (www.stvn.sh)

        dmtomas@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
        dmtomas@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
        dmtomas@mastodon.social
        wrote last edited by
        #33

        @tante heh - my wife, who (encouraged by our friend who did the same switch ~5/6 years ago) decided at the end of 2021 to quit her supply chain management career and become a developer (so we both could have remote jobs ant travel) - ignored the funeral and tried, and tired and tried till 2025, when she said fuckit and became qa engineer … just in time to train the machines 🤦‍♂️

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

          @felix_eckhardt @tante

          I think the thing to be pointed out is that cost of the systems versus their operational costs are very different things and this page gives you an idea of what the power draw is. Primarily the cost is in increased energy, demand and waste.

          This is what I meant. Is that Moore’s law, is only been kept alive by stacking components on the silicon. For GPU this is intrinsic and ideal. You can’t contravene thermodynamics though.

          Link Preview Image
          12 best GPUs for AI and machine learning in 2026 | Blog — Northflank

          Compare the 12 best GPUs for AI in 2026: B200, H200, H100, RTX 4090 & more. Specs, performance & costs. Deploy with Northflank's cloud platform.

          favicon

          Northflank — Deploy any project in seconds, in our cloud or yours. (northflank.com)

          ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
          ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
          ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
          wrote last edited by
          #34

          @felix_eckhardt @tante

          Also I can help nerding out a bit, but running on the assumption that Nvidia is talking about technical reality and not some marketing ploy, the raw compute power does not necessarily equate to better performance. Compute power is more subtle than gigaflops. This means that more compute power may not be found necessarily more gigaflops but in the surrounding architecture and that can be good or less good.

          Link Preview Image
          NVIDIA CUDA Cores: How They Work and Why They Matter (2026)

          Learn how CUDA cores power AI training through parallel processors. Compare CUDA vs Tensor cores, performance factors, and get started with cloud GPUs.

          favicon

          (www.thundercompute.com)

          felix_eckhardt@det.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

            @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

            linkshaender@bildung.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
            linkshaender@bildung.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
            linkshaender@bildung.social
            wrote last edited by
            #35

            @stevendotjs @tante Thanks for writing this and congratulations on your craftsmanship with words! Hits the perfect tone and while English is not my first language, reading this was pure bliss.
            Made it out of programming (it’s just a hobby now) and glad about that. 😎

            stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

              "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

              Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

              Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

              favicon

              (www.stvn.sh)

              wcbdata@vis.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
              wcbdata@vis.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
              wcbdata@vis.social
              wrote last edited by
              #36

              @tante Gawd this is good.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                tante@tldr.nettime.org
                wrote last edited by
                #37

                @stevendotjs it's fantastic! Thanks for writing it

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • linkshaender@bildung.socialL linkshaender@bildung.social

                  @stevendotjs @tante Thanks for writing this and congratulations on your craftsmanship with words! Hits the perfect tone and while English is not my first language, reading this was pure bliss.
                  Made it out of programming (it’s just a hobby now) and glad about that. 😎

                  stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                  stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                  stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                  wrote last edited by
                  #38

                  @Linkshaender @tante ahw thank you! Happy for you you made it out! If you wanna tell me about it, I'm all ears.

                  linkshaender@bildung.socialL 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                    "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                    Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                    Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                    favicon

                    (www.stvn.sh)

                    inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                    inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                    inkomtech@infosec.exchange
                    wrote last edited by
                    #39

                    @tante #noLiesDetected #notHyperbole #whyAmILaughing

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                      @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                      joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      joy_intl@mastodon.online
                      wrote last edited by
                      #40

                      @stevendotjs i applaud you, kind sir
                      - I hilariously joined a web dev program in 2022, and when I completed it in 2024, I could see it was pointless trying to get a job as a Jr..

                      Your story resonates (also bc I'm a career changer so old enough to have other experiences that are similar) - it's both hilarious and stark.

                      Well done 👏

                      @tante

                      stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                        @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                        inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                        inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                        inkomtech@infosec.exchange
                        wrote last edited by
                        #41

                        @stevendotjs kudos. so very on point.

                        Having ridden out the implosion of the dot-com crash, I’m staring at all this buildout and wondering what this time smells like. Capital spend crushed a few big names. Example: Lucent went to a nickel on the dollar.

                        stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ joy_intl@mastodon.online

                          @stevendotjs i applaud you, kind sir
                          - I hilariously joined a web dev program in 2022, and when I completed it in 2024, I could see it was pointless trying to get a job as a Jr..

                          Your story resonates (also bc I'm a career changer so old enough to have other experiences that are similar) - it's both hilarious and stark.

                          Well done 👏

                          @tante

                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                          wrote last edited by
                          #42

                          @Joy_intl @tante I... I'm so sorry. I'm glad you realized what was happening, cut your losses and did the right thing, but damn that's harsh.

                          joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                            @Joy_intl @tante I... I'm so sorry. I'm glad you realized what was happening, cut your losses and did the right thing, but damn that's harsh.

                            joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            joy_intl@mastodon.online
                            wrote last edited by
                            #43

                            @stevendotjs i feel for my cohort who tried to move forward by going for their masters.. I hope it works for them. I hope there are enough companies who see the mess AI creates cannot be trusted.. but humans tend to take the path of least resistance..

                            In truth, I was never a coder, so let's hope I can find other ways to feed myself and my family.. it's rough out here for everyone.

                            @tante

                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI inkomtech@infosec.exchange

                              @stevendotjs kudos. so very on point.

                              Having ridden out the implosion of the dot-com crash, I’m staring at all this buildout and wondering what this time smells like. Capital spend crushed a few big names. Example: Lucent went to a nickel on the dollar.

                              stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                              stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                              stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                              wrote last edited by
                              #44

                              @InkomTech oh yeah, pulling up a chair to roast marshmallows over the bonfire.

                              And thanks ❤️🙏

                              inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ joy_intl@mastodon.online

                                @stevendotjs i feel for my cohort who tried to move forward by going for their masters.. I hope it works for them. I hope there are enough companies who see the mess AI creates cannot be trusted.. but humans tend to take the path of least resistance..

                                In truth, I was never a coder, so let's hope I can find other ways to feed myself and my family.. it's rough out here for everyone.

                                @tante

                                stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                                wrote last edited by
                                #45

                                @Joy_intl @tante it really is, I have a fiance and newborn to provide for as well, and it's making me anxious.

                                Take care ❤️ reach out for help if it becomes too much please 🙏

                                joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                  @Joy_intl @tante it really is, I have a fiance and newborn to provide for as well, and it's making me anxious.

                                  Take care ❤️ reach out for help if it becomes too much please 🙏

                                  joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  joy_intl@mastodon.online
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #46

                                  @stevendotjs That is very kind. I return your kindness and encouragement. We humans do better when we act in solidarity.

                                  ✊️

                                  @tante

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                    @InkomTech oh yeah, pulling up a chair to roast marshmallows over the bonfire.

                                    And thanks ❤️🙏

                                    inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                                    inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                                    inkomtech@infosec.exchange
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #47

                                    @stevendotjs I don’t fear dioxin nor microplastics, but I ain’t eating anything cooked over that blaze.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
                                    • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                      @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                                      dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                                      dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                                      dalehagglund@hachyderm.io
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #48

                                      @stevendotjs @tante Great article... I checked out out the link and the pckt.blog page mentioned there but I only saw this article: I'd love to read more of your writing, either past or future.

                                      I started work as a full-time software dev in 1988 (or a few years earlier if you count summer jobs), and I was lucky enough to enjoy it pretty much through to retirement a few years ago, right around the first chatgpt release. One of the parts I found most personally fulfilling was mentoring younger devs (which definitely included me learning from them and them challenging my old-guy reflexes) and to see what's happened in the very few years since is profoundly discouraging...

                                      And thanks for @tante for forwarding this...

                                      stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD dalehagglund@hachyderm.io

                                        @stevendotjs @tante Great article... I checked out out the link and the pckt.blog page mentioned there but I only saw this article: I'd love to read more of your writing, either past or future.

                                        I started work as a full-time software dev in 1988 (or a few years earlier if you count summer jobs), and I was lucky enough to enjoy it pretty much through to retirement a few years ago, right around the first chatgpt release. One of the parts I found most personally fulfilling was mentoring younger devs (which definitely included me learning from them and them challenging my old-guy reflexes) and to see what's happened in the very few years since is profoundly discouraging...

                                        And thanks for @tante for forwarding this...

                                        stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #49

                                        @DaleHagglund @tante oh man yeah congrats on getting out in time!

                                        My site is honestly barely half finished, I wasn't really expecting this to go anywhere, and this was the first thing I published in years. I'll be sure to keep writing ❤️🙏

                                        dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                          @DaleHagglund @tante oh man yeah congrats on getting out in time!

                                          My site is honestly barely half finished, I wasn't really expecting this to go anywhere, and this was the first thing I published in years. I'll be sure to keep writing ❤️🙏

                                          dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                                          dalehagglund@hachyderm.io
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #50

                                          @stevendotjs @tante Thanks, and I'll look forward to more articles. As far as retiring, I can't claim any any special foresight; it was just the right time to leave for various reasons. Without at all realizing it at the time, I just happened to be in the industry at a time when software devs had substantial power versus management, if we chose to use it. It was much closer to retirement, and more-so in the years since, that I started to realize that was historically unusual, and changing rapidly for the worse in software.

                                          Every now and then I read articles by a couple software dev bloggers I trust who are, I think, looking carefully at *how* to use LLMs in a way that might (just maybe) set devs up to be "centaurs", ie the drivers of technology, versus Doctorow's "reverse-centaurs", ie, meat-puppets directed by the system a la Amazon drivers. I don't have any particular faith that those can be achieved in any broad sense in the current context of the industry, though...

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