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  3. "There are no more juniors.

"There are no more juniors.

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  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

    "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

    Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

    Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

    favicon

    (www.stvn.sh)

    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
    wrote last edited by
    #30

    @tante

    “Cheaper” only because the industry is currently subsidizing subscriptions to the tune of 5 to 12 times the revenue they gain from the subscriptions themselves.

    And we haven’t even started to talk about the debt service these companies have undertaken

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

      @felix_eckhardt @tante

      Even Moore’s law has flattened out because we’re reaching the physical limit of electronics. The only way compute power has really expanded is by stacking compute cells on top of each other.

      The faster speeds dramatically increase. I think the relationship is a low exponentiation so more compute power faster speeds demands more and more power delivery and generates more and more heat. This is not a good combination.

      felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
      felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
      felix_eckhardt@det.social
      wrote last edited by
      #31

      @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante Hm, i am not conviced:

      Link Preview Image
      GPU computational performance per dollar

      An interactive visualization from Our World in Data.

      favicon

      Our World in Data (ourworldindata.org)

      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • felix_eckhardt@det.socialF felix_eckhardt@det.social

        @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante Hm, i am not conviced:

        Link Preview Image
        GPU computational performance per dollar

        An interactive visualization from Our World in Data.

        favicon

        Our World in Data (ourworldindata.org)

        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
        wrote last edited by
        #32

        @felix_eckhardt @tante

        I think the thing to be pointed out is that cost of the systems versus their operational costs are very different things and this page gives you an idea of what the power draw is. Primarily the cost is in increased energy, demand and waste.

        This is what I meant. Is that Moore’s law, is only been kept alive by stacking components on the silicon. For GPU this is intrinsic and ideal. You can’t contravene thermodynamics though.

        Link Preview Image
        12 best GPUs for AI and machine learning in 2026 | Blog — Northflank

        Compare the 12 best GPUs for AI in 2026: B200, H200, H100, RTX 4090 & more. Specs, performance & costs. Deploy with Northflank's cloud platform.

        favicon

        Northflank — Deploy any project in seconds, in our cloud or yours. (northflank.com)

        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

          "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

          Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

          Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

          favicon

          (www.stvn.sh)

          dmtomas@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
          dmtomas@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
          dmtomas@mastodon.social
          wrote last edited by
          #33

          @tante heh - my wife, who (encouraged by our friend who did the same switch ~5/6 years ago) decided at the end of 2021 to quit her supply chain management career and become a developer (so we both could have remote jobs ant travel) - ignored the funeral and tried, and tired and tried till 2025, when she said fuckit and became qa engineer … just in time to train the machines 🤦‍♂️

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

            @felix_eckhardt @tante

            I think the thing to be pointed out is that cost of the systems versus their operational costs are very different things and this page gives you an idea of what the power draw is. Primarily the cost is in increased energy, demand and waste.

            This is what I meant. Is that Moore’s law, is only been kept alive by stacking components on the silicon. For GPU this is intrinsic and ideal. You can’t contravene thermodynamics though.

            Link Preview Image
            12 best GPUs for AI and machine learning in 2026 | Blog — Northflank

            Compare the 12 best GPUs for AI in 2026: B200, H200, H100, RTX 4090 & more. Specs, performance & costs. Deploy with Northflank's cloud platform.

            favicon

            Northflank — Deploy any project in seconds, in our cloud or yours. (northflank.com)

            ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
            ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
            ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
            wrote last edited by
            #34

            @felix_eckhardt @tante

            Also I can help nerding out a bit, but running on the assumption that Nvidia is talking about technical reality and not some marketing ploy, the raw compute power does not necessarily equate to better performance. Compute power is more subtle than gigaflops. This means that more compute power may not be found necessarily more gigaflops but in the surrounding architecture and that can be good or less good.

            Link Preview Image
            NVIDIA CUDA Cores: How They Work and Why They Matter (2026)

            Learn how CUDA cores power AI training through parallel processors. Compare CUDA vs Tensor cores, performance factors, and get started with cloud GPUs.

            favicon

            (www.thundercompute.com)

            felix_eckhardt@det.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

              @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

              linkshaender@bildung.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
              linkshaender@bildung.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
              linkshaender@bildung.social
              wrote last edited by
              #35

              @stevendotjs @tante Thanks for writing this and congratulations on your craftsmanship with words! Hits the perfect tone and while English is not my first language, reading this was pure bliss.
              Made it out of programming (it’s just a hobby now) and glad about that. 😎

              stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                favicon

                (www.stvn.sh)

                wcbdata@vis.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                wcbdata@vis.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                wcbdata@vis.social
                wrote last edited by
                #36

                @tante Gawd this is good.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                  @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                  tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tante@tldr.nettime.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tante@tldr.nettime.org
                  wrote last edited by
                  #37

                  @stevendotjs it's fantastic! Thanks for writing it

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • linkshaender@bildung.socialL linkshaender@bildung.social

                    @stevendotjs @tante Thanks for writing this and congratulations on your craftsmanship with words! Hits the perfect tone and while English is not my first language, reading this was pure bliss.
                    Made it out of programming (it’s just a hobby now) and glad about that. 😎

                    stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                    stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                    stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                    wrote last edited by
                    #38

                    @Linkshaender @tante ahw thank you! Happy for you you made it out! If you wanna tell me about it, I'm all ears.

                    linkshaender@bildung.socialL 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                      "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                      Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                      Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                      favicon

                      (www.stvn.sh)

                      inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                      inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                      inkomtech@infosec.exchange
                      wrote last edited by
                      #39

                      @tante #noLiesDetected #notHyperbole #whyAmILaughing

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                        @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                        joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        joy_intl@mastodon.online
                        wrote last edited by
                        #40

                        @stevendotjs i applaud you, kind sir
                        - I hilariously joined a web dev program in 2022, and when I completed it in 2024, I could see it was pointless trying to get a job as a Jr..

                        Your story resonates (also bc I'm a career changer so old enough to have other experiences that are similar) - it's both hilarious and stark.

                        Well done 👏

                        @tante

                        stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                          @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                          inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                          inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                          inkomtech@infosec.exchange
                          wrote last edited by
                          #41

                          @stevendotjs kudos. so very on point.

                          Having ridden out the implosion of the dot-com crash, I’m staring at all this buildout and wondering what this time smells like. Capital spend crushed a few big names. Example: Lucent went to a nickel on the dollar.

                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ joy_intl@mastodon.online

                            @stevendotjs i applaud you, kind sir
                            - I hilariously joined a web dev program in 2022, and when I completed it in 2024, I could see it was pointless trying to get a job as a Jr..

                            Your story resonates (also bc I'm a career changer so old enough to have other experiences that are similar) - it's both hilarious and stark.

                            Well done 👏

                            @tante

                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                            wrote last edited by
                            #42

                            @Joy_intl @tante I... I'm so sorry. I'm glad you realized what was happening, cut your losses and did the right thing, but damn that's harsh.

                            joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                              @Joy_intl @tante I... I'm so sorry. I'm glad you realized what was happening, cut your losses and did the right thing, but damn that's harsh.

                              joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              joy_intl@mastodon.online
                              wrote last edited by
                              #43

                              @stevendotjs i feel for my cohort who tried to move forward by going for their masters.. I hope it works for them. I hope there are enough companies who see the mess AI creates cannot be trusted.. but humans tend to take the path of least resistance..

                              In truth, I was never a coder, so let's hope I can find other ways to feed myself and my family.. it's rough out here for everyone.

                              @tante

                              stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI inkomtech@infosec.exchange

                                @stevendotjs kudos. so very on point.

                                Having ridden out the implosion of the dot-com crash, I’m staring at all this buildout and wondering what this time smells like. Capital spend crushed a few big names. Example: Lucent went to a nickel on the dollar.

                                stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                                wrote last edited by
                                #44

                                @InkomTech oh yeah, pulling up a chair to roast marshmallows over the bonfire.

                                And thanks ❤️🙏

                                inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ joy_intl@mastodon.online

                                  @stevendotjs i feel for my cohort who tried to move forward by going for their masters.. I hope it works for them. I hope there are enough companies who see the mess AI creates cannot be trusted.. but humans tend to take the path of least resistance..

                                  In truth, I was never a coder, so let's hope I can find other ways to feed myself and my family.. it's rough out here for everyone.

                                  @tante

                                  stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #45

                                  @Joy_intl @tante it really is, I have a fiance and newborn to provide for as well, and it's making me anxious.

                                  Take care ❤️ reach out for help if it becomes too much please 🙏

                                  joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                    @Joy_intl @tante it really is, I have a fiance and newborn to provide for as well, and it's making me anxious.

                                    Take care ❤️ reach out for help if it becomes too much please 🙏

                                    joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    joy_intl@mastodon.online
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #46

                                    @stevendotjs That is very kind. I return your kindness and encouragement. We humans do better when we act in solidarity.

                                    ✊️

                                    @tante

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                      @InkomTech oh yeah, pulling up a chair to roast marshmallows over the bonfire.

                                      And thanks ❤️🙏

                                      inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                                      inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI This user is from outside of this forum
                                      inkomtech@infosec.exchange
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #47

                                      @stevendotjs I don’t fear dioxin nor microplastics, but I ain’t eating anything cooked over that blaze.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
                                      • stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS stevendotjs@hachyderm.io

                                        @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                                        dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        dalehagglund@hachyderm.io
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #48

                                        @stevendotjs @tante Great article... I checked out out the link and the pckt.blog page mentioned there but I only saw this article: I'd love to read more of your writing, either past or future.

                                        I started work as a full-time software dev in 1988 (or a few years earlier if you count summer jobs), and I was lucky enough to enjoy it pretty much through to retirement a few years ago, right around the first chatgpt release. One of the parts I found most personally fulfilling was mentoring younger devs (which definitely included me learning from them and them challenging my old-guy reflexes) and to see what's happened in the very few years since is profoundly discouraging...

                                        And thanks for @tante for forwarding this...

                                        stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD dalehagglund@hachyderm.io

                                          @stevendotjs @tante Great article... I checked out out the link and the pckt.blog page mentioned there but I only saw this article: I'd love to read more of your writing, either past or future.

                                          I started work as a full-time software dev in 1988 (or a few years earlier if you count summer jobs), and I was lucky enough to enjoy it pretty much through to retirement a few years ago, right around the first chatgpt release. One of the parts I found most personally fulfilling was mentoring younger devs (which definitely included me learning from them and them challenging my old-guy reflexes) and to see what's happened in the very few years since is profoundly discouraging...

                                          And thanks for @tante for forwarding this...

                                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #49

                                          @DaleHagglund @tante oh man yeah congrats on getting out in time!

                                          My site is honestly barely half finished, I wasn't really expecting this to go anywhere, and this was the first thing I published in years. I'll be sure to keep writing ❤️🙏

                                          dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD 1 Reply Last reply
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