Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I have a co worker that complains a lot that no one asks questions or says anything besides him in meetings.
I started to interrupt him when he says stuff like "... But no one else seems to have to add anything" and explain to him that if he wants others to talk he needs to shut up for a second.
He slowly starts to get it. But it's weird that he seemingly didn't understand before that you can't just keep talking and expect a discussion to happen. -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Might be anecdotal but at my old workplace, interrupting was absolutely required because people had no interest in receiving feedback and held 5-minutes-long monologues every time they opened their mouth. By the end you had a dozen points of important feedback and even if you were lucky enough to speak up before someone else did, your first point would be answered with another 5 minute monologue.
You had to interrupt to be heard. It sucked. We need a better meeting culture.
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@alice Might be anecdotal but at my old workplace, interrupting was absolutely required because people had no interest in receiving feedback and held 5-minutes-long monologues every time they opened their mouth. By the end you had a dozen points of important feedback and even if you were lucky enough to speak up before someone else did, your first point would be answered with another 5 minute monologue.
You had to interrupt to be heard. It sucked. We need a better meeting culture.
@alice And of course, the same people who took up 90% of a meeting with their monologues still got mad when you interrupted them because *obviously* their opinion was more important than yours.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I see this all the time and I hate it so much.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Not all men, but most men. I wish that could go without saying... Men that don't talk over others get talked over too.
Bad behavior systemically rewarded. (This topic reminds me of Leaders Eat Last - Simon Senek) -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice As a trans I can get dysphoric having to meet them where they're at like that but I also love playing that game soooooo
I've just femenized my confidence over time. Ultimately good men feel respected when you treat them as an equal and expect the same.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I hate interrupting, I find it very rude and I don't do it irl and in my job, which involves a lot of presentations. One of my directors interrupts on regular basis, often asking about the previous topic just after I move on, although she is a softly spoken person, although I blame Teams for that. Face to face she interrpts much quicker, often takes over, then starts telling others what to do and forgets that I was presenting, so I have to remind her. I try to see the funny side of it.
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@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
@isaacfreeman
@alice
Idk if this is helpful, but as a woman who used to work in software, one phrase I wish some of my male colleagues could have learnt was "how much do you already know about this topic?", to be deployed *before* explaining the entire topic in minute detail. "How much do you need to know about this topic?" is a good one, as well. -
@isaacfreeman
@alice
Idk if this is helpful, but as a woman who used to work in software, one phrase I wish some of my male colleagues could have learnt was "how much do you already know about this topic?", to be deployed *before* explaining the entire topic in minute detail. "How much do you need to know about this topic?" is a good one, as well.@isaacfreeman
@alice
Oops.. I didn't realise this thread was so old, sorry!
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice it's because men are arseholes. That's it.
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@alice I hate interrupting, I find it very rude and I don't do it irl and in my job, which involves a lot of presentations. One of my directors interrupts on regular basis, often asking about the previous topic just after I move on, although she is a softly spoken person, although I blame Teams for that. Face to face she interrpts much quicker, often takes over, then starts telling others what to do and forgets that I was presenting, so I have to remind her. I try to see the funny side of it.
-
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I sometimes talk over people because I'm excited, but not deliberately like that. However, I've gotten to an age where I have less patience with people who talk over me, and I am blunt enough to tell them to shut up while I'm talking.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Over the years, I've seen this extensively. It's especially bad towards women, but they definitely do it to each other, as if every conversation or meeting is a cock fight. I absolutely hate it, so now I hardly talk at all to most people and I intentionally try to listen to people who are actually trying to say something, as opposed to these guys who just suffer from diarrhea of the mouth. Now, I just instantly judge them as intellectually stagnant (to put it politely) and move on.
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@isaacfreeman
@alice
Oops.. I didn't realise this thread was so old, sorry!@3TomatoesShort there's no statute of limitations on socializing
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice
Wonderful post, but I am having the weirdest deja vu. Didn't I reply to this a while back? -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I’m a slight loudmouth in any gender, but femsy protocol gives me the extra option of “shut up and smile”. For me, that’s a win! For the rest, I seem to count as an “equal opportunity offender” (quote: Sam Carter on StarGate, about Jack O’Neill).
Will I pass the mic to women? Hell yeah! Some act surprised!
Several of my superiors are opinionated women. That’s cool!
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@isaacfreeman
@alice
Idk if this is helpful, but as a woman who used to work in software, one phrase I wish some of my male colleagues could have learnt was "how much do you already know about this topic?", to be deployed *before* explaining the entire topic in minute detail. "How much do you need to know about this topic?" is a good one, as well.Tricky though, because it is mainly a context and body language thing. I often mistake the expression and phrasing a woman uses as a signal of where their level of expertise and prior knowledge sits. So it isn't that I automatically assume [woman] is ignorant, but that how I read her tells me with a sense of surety that her level is lower than it actually is.
Asking that question won't even occur to me at that moment, because I will be very confident
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@alice it's because men are arseholes. That's it.
@BackFromTheDud see ¹
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