The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive.
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@HighlandLawyer @rzeta0 @kibcol1049 absolutely but in common speech, being understood and questioning where it is not clear, is easier. Am not a linguist so grammatical nuances are not my finest hour. I ask a lot of questions.
@EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049
Questions are good. Frustratingly, languages are illogical so even when you learn "the rule", you then come up against particular dialects or idioms which contradict that rule. Happy happy joy joy. (Another idiom where emphatic positive means a negative) -
@eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
That's opening a totally different can of worm about how to respond to a negative question!!!
"Are you not finishing that?"
Does "yes" means "I will finish it" or "your statement is correct, I will not finish it".
I've learnt recently that French uses "si" (I will finish it) instead of "yes" (your statement is correct, i will not finish it) to answer a negative question. Native French speaker myself, I feel a bit ashamed about not knowing it before.
@Lily_and_frog @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski The text book English language rules are different to the current spoken language trends. The meaning is usually clear when spoken even though grammatically incorrect. I feel sorry for non English speakers.
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@kibcol1049 Reminds me of an old programmer joke:
A wife sends her programmer husband to the grocery store for a loaf of bread...
On his way out she says "and if they have eggs, get a dozen". The programmer husband returns home with 12 loaves of bread and says: "They had eggs."
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@eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
That's opening a totally different can of worm about how to respond to a negative question!!!
"Are you not finishing that?"
Does "yes" means "I will finish it" or "your statement is correct, I will not finish it".
I've learnt recently that French uses "si" (I will finish it) instead of "yes" (your statement is correct, i will not finish it) to answer a negative question. Native French speaker myself, I feel a bit ashamed about not knowing it before.
@Lily_and_frog @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049 the ambiguity is part of the fun!
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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@eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
That's opening a totally different can of worm about how to respond to a negative question!!!
"Are you not finishing that?"
Does "yes" means "I will finish it" or "your statement is correct, I will not finish it".
I've learnt recently that French uses "si" (I will finish it) instead of "yes" (your statement is correct, i will not finish it) to answer a negative question. Native French speaker myself, I feel a bit ashamed about not knowing it before.
@Lily_and_frog @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
How about the usage in Scottish or Irish English of "Is that you then?", which is asking a completely different question to the literal English words used. -
@eleder @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049 In German, you can express something analogous with "Ja, nee, klar" ("Yes, naa, sure"), i.e. yes-no-yes.
What do you make of that?
@jack @eleder @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
In Canada we sometimes say "Yeah, No, yeah. "
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@kibcol1049 Reminds me of an old programmer joke:
A wife sends her programmer husband to the grocery store for a loaf of bread...
On his way out she says "and if they have eggs, get a dozen". The programmer husband returns home with 12 loaves of bread and says: "They had eggs."
Is it purely a programmer joke or also a sexist one?
What about:
A man sends his programmer wife to the grocery store for a loaf of bread...
On her way out he says "and if they have eggs, get a dozen". The programmer wife returns home with 12 loaves of bread and says: "They had eggs."
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Is it purely a programmer joke or also a sexist one?
What about:
A man sends his programmer wife to the grocery store for a loaf of bread...
On her way out he says "and if they have eggs, get a dozen". The programmer wife returns home with 12 loaves of bread and says: "They had eggs."
@sibrosan @kibcol1049 Of course it could be. Also husband and husband, wife and wife, spy and spy...
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@sibrosan @kibcol1049 Of course it could be. Also husband and husband, wife and wife, spy and spy...
@sibrosan @kibcol1049 Insert your poly and non-binary versions.
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English is my second language and phrases like
"we don't want no education"
always bother me.
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@Lily_and_frog @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049 the ambiguity is part of the fun!
@OneInterestingFact @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
Yeah, right...
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."@kibcol1049
Be careful in Germany:
"yes, yes" means "kiss my ass".("Ja, ja" heißt "leck mich am Arsch".)
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@Lily_and_frog @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski The text book English language rules are different to the current spoken language trends. The meaning is usually clear when spoken even though grammatically incorrect. I feel sorry for non English speakers.
@kibcol1049 @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski
The difficulty with both double negatives and negative questions is definitely not limited to English!
Your joke definitely translates well in french (especially in québécois french)!
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"I don't know nuffin"
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."@kibcol1049 In American Ebonics double negatives denoting positive is a real rule (one of the rules that differentiates it from common american english). I really appreciate how language is living and is able to adjust to time, place, and context.
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@eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
That's opening a totally different can of worm about how to respond to a negative question!!!
"Are you not finishing that?"
Does "yes" means "I will finish it" or "your statement is correct, I will not finish it".
I've learnt recently that French uses "si" (I will finish it) instead of "yes" (your statement is correct, i will not finish it) to answer a negative question. Native French speaker myself, I feel a bit ashamed about not knowing it before.
@Lily_and_frog @eleder @jack @Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049
English used to have a 4 form system - Yes contradicts a negatively formulated question, No affirms it; Yea affirms a positively formulated question, Nay contradicts it.
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English is my second language and phrases like
"we don't want no education"
always bother me.
@rzeta0 @kibcol1049 It is a dialect form in the bits of the North of England that I grew up in. Maybe other parts of the UK too.
As in:
"We don't need nothing from you."
Which in more standard English would have been:
"We don't need anything from you.".
It has always seemed to me to be the interchangebility of anything/nothing and any/no as a reinforcement of the negative rather than necessarily a use of double negatives as is normally practiced in UK English.
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right." -
@sibrosan @kibcol1049 Of course it could be. Also husband and husband, wife and wife, spy and spy...
I think it is, in general, not that simple.
A joke like this starts out with setting a scene that sounds familiar enough for people to easily picture in their mind.
The humorous element is in the unexpected turn of events in the punch line.
For most people, the gender role reversal in my version will be already somewhat unexpected, which interferes with the punch line effect.
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@rzeta0 @kibcol1049 It is a dialect form in the bits of the North of England that I grew up in. Maybe other parts of the UK too.
As in:
"We don't need nothing from you."
Which in more standard English would have been:
"We don't need anything from you.".
It has always seemed to me to be the interchangebility of anything/nothing and any/no as a reinforcement of the negative rather than necessarily a use of double negatives as is normally practiced in UK English.
