We all know the famous Shakespeare quote about the state of Denmark.
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@Pepijn sigh. This all sounds terribly familiar. Just replace "Danish" with "English".
Why are some humans so rubbish?@cazmockett @Pepijn Here in the Netherlands it's the same.
It echoes a past I only heard stories about from older generations. I don't want to have to tell my own similar stories to young people in the future.
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It is not entirely invisible in Copenhagen either. I have highly educated British friends with work contracts and long-term partners in Denmark who were nevertheless given an incredibly hard time to get a visa. At the university English language courses are discouraged and silent rooms are being removed because Muslim students used then to pray. When the department of law "had to" fire six permanent staff this happened almost exclusively from the tiny pool of international employees. @Pepijn
@brekke Oh true. And it's not that new either. It's often in the little hidden things.
The name of our child (born in Denmark) on their original birth certificate is not the name on their (not-Danish) passport (we went to a formal name change outside of DK). Reason is that Denmark has a system to "protect" kids from getting the wrong name. It just happens to be flawed towards certain groups..
It's a known issue, but no party dares even to attempt to fix this. Most say "it works as intended".
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You don't notice it when you go to the large cities.
But you do notice it in the more rural (and still rich) areas like the one we call home.
Being openly xenophobic, even being openly racist.. is not a reason to be shunned these days. Instead it's a position you and your neighbour can "debate".
For those patriotism for "Danish things" is often a thin cover for nationalism, (open) xenophobia & racism. People genuinely believe in a Danish native superiority over "other peoples".
3/4
And while I am happy that the "left" did reasonably well in yesterdays elections, it is not the win it is made out to be.
The area I call home is the base of the world's largest toy company. It has a massive airport and hosts other large employers.
Most people, including unemployed, in this area have a high quality of life.
There's no "30% of people loosing out" here. Yet that is what many do believe. The cause? Foreigners (and, apparently, solar panels). The solution? Vote "against".
4
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@brekke Oh true. And it's not that new either. It's often in the little hidden things.
The name of our child (born in Denmark) on their original birth certificate is not the name on their (not-Danish) passport (we went to a formal name change outside of DK). Reason is that Denmark has a system to "protect" kids from getting the wrong name. It just happens to be flawed towards certain groups..
It's a known issue, but no party dares even to attempt to fix this. Most say "it works as intended".
Speaking of children, I've lost count on the amount of resourceful single expat mothers I know in Copenhagen who would like to leave Denmark and go home, but are unable to do so because their children would be taken away from them even though their husbands play no role in parenting, sometimes having been proven unfit to do so.
They are kept hostage in Denmark because it is, apparently, always "the best interest of the child". And the glass ceiling for foreign women seems bulletproof. @Pepijn
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You don't notice it when you go to the large cities.
But you do notice it in the more rural (and still rich) areas like the one we call home.
Being openly xenophobic, even being openly racist.. is not a reason to be shunned these days. Instead it's a position you and your neighbour can "debate".
For those patriotism for "Danish things" is often a thin cover for nationalism, (open) xenophobia & racism. People genuinely believe in a Danish native superiority over "other peoples".
3/4
@Pepijn It’s been very strange hearing the election coverage from the international press and comparing it to what you hear on the ground. Openly racist slogans on political posters and TV debates are becoming more and more common.
And the worst part is that people keep voting for these parties! They looked at what happened in the US and thought that the best response would be to vote for the same populist, xenophobic ideas here in Denmark! -
@passenger @shantara @Pepijn this, so much this
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And while I am happy that the "left" did reasonably well in yesterdays elections, it is not the win it is made out to be.
The area I call home is the base of the world's largest toy company. It has a massive airport and hosts other large employers.
Most people, including unemployed, in this area have a high quality of life.
There's no "30% of people loosing out" here. Yet that is what many do believe. The cause? Foreigners (and, apparently, solar panels). The solution? Vote "against".
4
@Pepijn Even worse than up here just north of Randers.
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@passenger @shantara @Pepijn Sweden has proper swedish troll farms run by the "we're totally not nazis anymore, since we hate muslims more than jews" party, the blueprint for it is copied from the russian troll farms though.
I wish we could be working away on the background level of xenophobia though, but after a long while of (too) slowly getting better, but for the last decade things are backsliding bad under a combination of domestic and foreign propaganda.
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And while I am happy that the "left" did reasonably well in yesterdays elections, it is not the win it is made out to be.
The area I call home is the base of the world's largest toy company. It has a massive airport and hosts other large employers.
Most people, including unemployed, in this area have a high quality of life.
There's no "30% of people loosing out" here. Yet that is what many do believe. The cause? Foreigners (and, apparently, solar panels). The solution? Vote "against".
4
Maybe examples are a good idea:
>Being openly xenophobic
The local leader of the Danmarksdemokraterne (Danish Democrats) here acts openly racist in public*. And is not called out for it because "his policies for the community are not xenophobic."
*What I witnessed personally: he's third in a restaurant line. He waits for the older 'ethnic Dane' and then steps around the clearly 'not-ethnic Dane' and orders as if she doesn't exist.
People report the same behaviour in the supermarket etc.1/2
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Maybe examples are a good idea:
>Being openly xenophobic
The local leader of the Danmarksdemokraterne (Danish Democrats) here acts openly racist in public*. And is not called out for it because "his policies for the community are not xenophobic."
*What I witnessed personally: he's third in a restaurant line. He waits for the older 'ethnic Dane' and then steps around the clearly 'not-ethnic Dane' and orders as if she doesn't exist.
People report the same behaviour in the supermarket etc.1/2
@Pepijn It amazing, right. I mean, DK probably has problems with a few "foreigners", but it is far from an important agenda at this time.
But I am curious, do you mean Messerschmidt from Dansk Folkeparti or Støjbjerg from Danmarksdemokraterne? They both use xenophobic rhetoric.
Støjbjerg was impeached and convicted for systematically breaking the law in the treatment of refugees, which is now celebrated by her fans as an act of freedom and courage.
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This is not my experience. Yes, I read and hear about fear, helplessness and complacency.
I also see people building communities of mutual aid, locally and globally. Neighbours who help each other, bit by bit finding out where it hurts and what to do. Growing trust and faith in humanity.
Act, rather than add our opinion to the plethora of narratives. Prepare, don't scare.
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@passenger @shantara @Pepijn Sweden has proper swedish troll farms run by the "we're totally not nazis anymore, since we hate muslims more than jews" party, the blueprint for it is copied from the russian troll farms though.
I wish we could be working away on the background level of xenophobia though, but after a long while of (too) slowly getting better, but for the last decade things are backsliding bad under a combination of domestic and foreign propaganda.
@maswan @passenger @Pepijn “Background level of xenophobia” is a good way to describe it. I’ve personally seen several of outwardly very liberal Danish acquaintances say some wild stuff after a few drinks, but they at least had enough sense to keep it under wraps in their daily lives. But now such viewpoints have become a part of the mainstream political culture
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Maybe examples are a good idea:
>Being openly xenophobic
The local leader of the Danmarksdemokraterne (Danish Democrats) here acts openly racist in public*. And is not called out for it because "his policies for the community are not xenophobic."
*What I witnessed personally: he's third in a restaurant line. He waits for the older 'ethnic Dane' and then steps around the clearly 'not-ethnic Dane' and orders as if she doesn't exist.
People report the same behaviour in the supermarket etc.1/2
2/2 A local man had this as his Facebook profile banner.
[Bunch of people holding up a banner saying "white lives matter" (in itself a racist slogan). Someone added "Only" to the image to emphasise the racism to the less intellectual racists.]
A candidate standing in yesterdays elections for Danish Democrats liked this.
As I consider this relevant I contacted journalists from national outlets. One replied "You have to understand in Denmark we don't discuss private life of candidates".
2/2
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Maybe examples are a good idea:
>Being openly xenophobic
The local leader of the Danmarksdemokraterne (Danish Democrats) here acts openly racist in public*. And is not called out for it because "his policies for the community are not xenophobic."
*What I witnessed personally: he's third in a restaurant line. He waits for the older 'ethnic Dane' and then steps around the clearly 'not-ethnic Dane' and orders as if she doesn't exist.
People report the same behaviour in the supermarket etc.1/2
@Pepijn Cutting the line, at least in other Nordic countries is usually very much frowned upon. Doing so is very much a statment.
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@passenger @shantara @Pepijn hmm, as a European, in most of the circles I move in it's recognised this is a complex problem. Caused by industrial decline, the loss of state capacity through neoliberalism, and a failure to neutralise right-wing narratives for decades.
I associate the "it was Russia" with a specific strand of liberals you also see in the US.
A bigger issue is that many left parties have concluded they cannot change opinion anymore, so have to ride the ride of nativism instead.
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@Pepijn It amazing, right. I mean, DK probably has problems with a few "foreigners", but it is far from an important agenda at this time.
But I am curious, do you mean Messerschmidt from Dansk Folkeparti or Støjbjerg from Danmarksdemokraterne? They both use xenophobic rhetoric.
Støjbjerg was impeached and convicted for systematically breaking the law in the treatment of refugees, which is now celebrated by her fans as an act of freedom and courage.
@tokeriis In our area "foreigners" mostly help bring in the wealth our community has.
Both by working and living here (for example LEGO, it would not have been the company it is today without all the diversity brought in by hiring people from all over the world), and with all the tourists coming here to visit the theme parks etc.I mean both. There's not much difference between them and for all we know next election there's a third that just happens to be most popular one.
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@maswan @passenger @Pepijn “Background level of xenophobia” is a good way to describe it. I’ve personally seen several of outwardly very liberal Danish acquaintances say some wild stuff after a few drinks, but they at least had enough sense to keep it under wraps in their daily lives. But now such viewpoints have become a part of the mainstream political culture
@shantara @passenger @Pepijn Yup. And they fade even more into the background now that the extreme racism that 15 years ago would be shunned in polite nordic society are now "reasonable talking points" in mainstream politics.
I despair a bit on how much work there is to be done to get things back to where we again can make progress on this.
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And while I am happy that the "left" did reasonably well in yesterdays elections, it is not the win it is made out to be.
The area I call home is the base of the world's largest toy company. It has a massive airport and hosts other large employers.
Most people, including unemployed, in this area have a high quality of life.
There's no "30% of people loosing out" here. Yet that is what many do believe. The cause? Foreigners (and, apparently, solar panels). The solution? Vote "against".
4
@Pepijn jeeeeesus Christ
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@cazmockett @Pepijn Here in the Netherlands it's the same.
It echoes a past I only heard stories about from older generations. I don't want to have to tell my own similar stories to young people in the future.
@geppiegep @Pepijn I think it is becoming common everywhere. So depressing.
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2/2 A local man had this as his Facebook profile banner.
[Bunch of people holding up a banner saying "white lives matter" (in itself a racist slogan). Someone added "Only" to the image to emphasise the racism to the less intellectual racists.]
A candidate standing in yesterdays elections for Danish Democrats liked this.
As I consider this relevant I contacted journalists from national outlets. One replied "You have to understand in Denmark we don't discuss private life of candidates".
2/2
@Pepijn this is the party that was founded by the person who was impeached, ejected from parliament, and given a prison sentence for (racist) human rights violations while serving as immigration minister - supporting this party, let alone running as one of their candidates, is an open acknowledgement of being a white nationalist shitbag
I hate it, but I can understand why nobody is surprised
