Car just drove by and one of the guys in it made the 🐈👅 gesture out the window at me.
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@alice
I am so so sorry you had to deal with that. I am here for you if you need anything at all
To the men, **all men**, when someone you know does this: tell them very clearly that that behavior is disgusting and unacceptable.
There is no justification for that behavior, and it is nothing short of sexual harassment.
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@rbphotographic @alice Same for my wife and I. There are certain gas stations she avoids because of where they are and the type of men who frequent them. We also always go food shopping together or I go by myself because she ALWAYS has something happen.
@blainsmith @rbphotographic @alice I stopped grocery shopping. I hated it. I figure skate for exercise because it’s mostly women and gay men at the rink. I spend so much time with (mostly well behaved but oblivious) men at work that I mostly go to women-centered spaces now, especially if it’s on my own.
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@spiegelmama @Aprazeth yeah, I appreciate it. I can fight my own battles, and it usually takes a lot to rile me, but sometimes I just don't have the spoons to deal with Yet Another Wanker
¹, so I welcome the help.¹ if you're not "Yet Another Wanker
" then this isn't about you. -
@alice I never realised how bad it was for women until my wife had me follow her at a discreet distance while she was jogging on her own. I learnt why she only went jogging with me and that many men should not be allowed out into the world with supervision.
@rbphotographic
That's another part of the problem.Nobody believes without some level of "proof"
And, of course, there is no way to tell what sort of bloke the one you encounter is going to be, sometimes even when you thought you knew them well.
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@spiegelmama @Aprazeth yeah, I appreciate it. I can fight my own battles, and it usually takes a lot to rile me, but sometimes I just don't have the spoons to deal with Yet Another Wanker
¹, so I welcome the help.¹ if you're not "Yet Another Wanker
" then this isn't about you.@spiegelmama @Aprazeth ugh, the fact that I need to footnote things whenever I address or mention men¹ is evidence that men²³ are the problem⁴.
¹ not all men
² usually white men
³ not all white men
⁴ not all problems -
@alice I obviously didn't, otherwise I wouldn't have spoken up. I just wanted to point out the word "all" in your posting. I understand your sentiment, please understand mine.
@sebastian Your concern for Alice’s wording instead of the messaging says a lot about your priorities and it’s definitely not about Alice’s safety nor anyone else’s who shares this kind of experience about men.
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@spiegelmama @Aprazeth ugh, the fact that I need to footnote things whenever I address or mention men¹ is evidence that men²³ are the problem⁴.
¹ not all men
² usually white men
³ not all white men
⁴ not all problems -
@blainsmith @rbphotographic @alice I stopped grocery shopping. I hated it. I figure skate for exercise because it’s mostly women and gay men at the rink. I spend so much time with (mostly well behaved but oblivious) men at work that I mostly go to women-centered spaces now, especially if it’s on my own.
@irene @blainsmith @rbphotographic @alice they’ll bother you in a grocery shop? Regularly?
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@spiegelmama @Aprazeth ugh, the fact that I need to footnote things whenever I address or mention men¹ is evidence that men²³ are the problem⁴.
¹ not all men
² usually white men
³ not all white men
⁴ not all problems@alice @spiegelmama @Aprazeth Mike Harriot has a pretty good way of shutting up the "not all men" or the "not all white people" crowd.
Paraphrasing, if I say "Elephants trampled my grandma to death," it would be idiotic to say "Well not ALL elephants trampled your memaw!" And that's true. It wasn't all elephants; it was elephants. I'm not saying all elephants are dangerous; I'm saying elephants are dangerous.
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Car just drove by and one of the guys in it made the
gesture out the window at me.Not sure if it was an observation based on my aesthetic, or the threat of a
good time, but either way...guys, this is why y'all're still single.@alice solid. No notes. ‘Im be all the toxic stinky asshole things.’ vs. ‘Why don’t women* worship at my feet?’
While bigots are legislating ‘conversion therapy’, let’s bring back Charm School, but for toxic males. And I don’t think I even need to footnote that asterisk.
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Car just drove by and one of the guys in it made the
gesture out the window at me.Not sure if it was an observation based on my aesthetic, or the threat of a
good time, but either way...guys, this is why y'all're still single.@alice
Ok
Old Guy hereALL men have been and are likely to be guilty of some degree of this, and ALL men need to step up and ~police themselves~ AND ~Police other men~
Add this as a duty to be performed on a regular basisIf you suddenly have an urge to shout "not me" or "not all men", suck that neck back in, and know that 100% you are trying to fool us, or fool yourself.
None of us are immune to this, and all of us need to do the effort to curb itStart now
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@irene @blainsmith @rbphotographic @alice they’ll bother you in a grocery shop? Regularly?
@Colman @irene @blainsmith @rbphotographic @alice
our local grocery store has a second floor and a dimly lit, excruciatingly slow elevator to get up there. i try to avoid it, but when i do have to use it, i won't board if there is a single lady also waiting to go up.
"thanks, i'll catch the next one."
the relief in their eyes that they won't be stuck in there with some strange 'dude' is palpable.
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@alice I never realised how bad it was for women until my wife had me follow her at a discreet distance while she was jogging on her own. I learnt why she only went jogging with me and that many men should not be allowed out into the world with supervision.
@rbphotographic @alice I play a GPS game where I bike to zones IRL, stand still for 15 seconds and then rush to the next. My problem is that it's a very common jogging route and when I start passing the same woman the second time I'm getting a bit uneasy since I know how it looks... Luckily the forest is full of sidetracks and lately there is new zones popping up so it's possible to choose different routes. Earlier I just took a break while planning a new route.
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@irene @blainsmith @rbphotographic @alice they’ll bother you in a grocery shop? Regularly?
@Colman @irene @rbphotographic @alice My wife has told me she's experienced:
- Long uncomfortable stares
- Whistling
- Being followed around the store
- Random comments under their breadthAll of which were different men every time and she knows to just call me and I will answer to just be on the phone.
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@spiegelmama @Aprazeth ugh, the fact that I need to footnote things whenever I address or mention men¹ is evidence that men²³ are the problem⁴.
¹ not all men
² usually white men
³ not all white men
⁴ not all problems -
@rbphotographic @alice I play a GPS game where I bike to zones IRL, stand still for 15 seconds and then rush to the next. My problem is that it's a very common jogging route and when I start passing the same woman the second time I'm getting a bit uneasy since I know how it looks... Luckily the forest is full of sidetracks and lately there is new zones popping up so it's possible to choose different routes. Earlier I just took a break while planning a new route.
@rbphotographic I'm out a lot in the area since the zones are everywhere and so far I haven't seen a single bad behaviour against women. I know it happens because it has been a couple of cases on the news that ended up in court for assult but I have never witnessed even a whistle after a woman so I guess we are lucky here.
I have also been working in industry jobs that are notorious for it but there was nothing there either. But we northerners are known for being standoffish I guess
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@alice Are you addressing *all* "guys"? I'm a "guy", but neither do I drive an insult on four wheels (also called "car"), nor am I single.
The shame of being a "human being" is enough already!
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@sebastian Others have addressed the more substantive and important points, but I want to add that "y'all" is not the same as "all". It's a reference in general to a group.
"All men are silly"
and
"Men, y'all are silly"are two different sentences with entirely different meanings.
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@alice @spiegelmama @Aprazeth Mike Harriot has a pretty good way of shutting up the "not all men" or the "not all white people" crowd.
Paraphrasing, if I say "Elephants trampled my grandma to death," it would be idiotic to say "Well not ALL elephants trampled your memaw!" And that's true. It wasn't all elephants; it was elephants. I'm not saying all elephants are dangerous; I'm saying elephants are dangerous.
@Legit_Spaghetti @alice @spiegelmama @Aprazeth Another note, a lot of the "not all men" like to holler "AWALT! AWALT!" (All women are like that. "Like that" being your typical incel caricatures of women). Gender essentialism when convenient.
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@Colman @irene @rbphotographic @alice My wife has told me she's experienced:
- Long uncomfortable stares
- Whistling
- Being followed around the store
- Random comments under their breadthAll of which were different men every time and she knows to just call me and I will answer to just be on the phone.
@blainsmith @Colman @rbphotographic @alice when I was pretty young (15 or 16), my mom would send me to the store. Once a man blocked me between his car and mine and tried to get me to go home and have sex with him for money in the grocery store parking lot. Catcalls were common when I was younger and lived in the Midwest or Boston. In Seattle, I had someone ask me out in the pasta aisle. If it’s hot and I wear a dress people will make creepy (but probably what they think are complimentary) comments. My 60-ish year old neighbor made a point of interrupting me and commenting when I was washing my car on my driveway in a tennis dress.
