Study (N=2,689) of men (18-34) finds 95.1% reported using strategies to get a woman to have sex who they knew did not want sex & had not consented; 65% successful.

[amydiehl@mstdn.social]

Study (N=2,689) of men (18-34) finds 95.1% reported using strategies to get a woman to have sex who they knew did not want sex & had not consented; 65% successful. Consistent physical pressure & verbal coercion common; overt force, physical restraint, pain also used. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08862605261432630

[cobalt123@beige.party]

@amydiehl This is very distressing. When I think of the immense pressure on young women in this present US era, it’s very difficult to avoid aggressive cis male predation. Far more than when I was in my early 20’s. And I have 2 very strikingly beautiful granddaughters who often deal with it.

[gabriel@col.social]

@amydiehl OK, but the paper was focused on that demographic:

"This research was designed to focus on men who admit having intentionally and knowingly sexually aggressed against a woman who they knew did not want sex nor consented to it, including strategies to overcome her reluctance, circumstances, motivations, and positive and negative outcomes."

[gabriel@col.social]

@amydiehl

I'm not coming to argue "not all men", but from reading the tooth one walks away with the idea that 95% of men force women to have sex, and that is not what the article says at all. What it claims is that of a population that admits to intentionally sexually aggressed woman, 95% report to use strategies to get a woman to have sex when she hasn't consented.

I mean, clearly the paper itself claims "not all men".

[leslieburns@esq.social]

@gabriel That is a misreading, IMO. The criteria for participation was "Men were eligible if they self-identified as men, were in the age range 18 to 34 years, and reported having had a sexual encounter with a woman in the past 2 years."

Also, if it were only for those who admittedly coerced, etc., then the percentage would have been 100, not 95.1.

@amydiehl

[noodlemaz@mstdn.games]

@amydiehl... Coercion and physical force, restraint of someone unwilling and causing harm/using threats all negate the ability to give consent. Sex requires consent.
They were 'successful' in raping people.

[cheekqualizer@hear-me.social]

@amydiehl 95% admitted to it in a survey. Hard to imagine there aren't some who didn't admit to it.

[gabriel@col.social]

@LeslieBurns @amydiehl

I'm not misreading, I'm quoting the paper.

Also, there may be subtleties that lead to the question to not have 100%. Maybe someone identifies as a sexual attacker but not as a strategist. Or they were misidentified and they are not part of the universe. Or...

[gabriel@col.social]

@LeslieBurns @amydiehl

I'm not claiming that the percentage of men who have sexually assaulted women is not 95%. I'm claiming that this paper was not set up to answer that question. And the quote seems to point into that direction.

[leslieburns@esq.social]

@gabriel You are quoting what the authors said the intention of the study was. I was quoting what the authors said the actual criteria for participation was.

@amydiehl

[gabriel@col.social]

@LeslieBurns @amydiehl

gabriel (@gabriel@col.social)

@LeslieBurns@esq.social @amydiehl@mstdn.social I'm not claiming that the percentage of men who have sexually assaulted women is not 95%. I'm claiming that this paper was not set up to answer that question. And the quote seems to point into that direction.

col.social (col.social)

[wbftw@hachyderm.io]

@amydiehl jfc

[leslieburns@esq.social]

@gabriel Pretty sure we heard you the first time.

I simply think you're wrong.

@amydiehl

[gabriel@col.social]

@LeslieBurns @amydiehl

That's fine, we can disagree. Have a nice evening.

[consentgame@games.ngo]

@amydiehl

For this #SAAM we'd love to see more folks learn and share our free trauma-informed games about #consent.

'ADRIFT' is appropriate for all ages.

'A Thousand Cuts' is for college students and explores the Title IX process.

Age level for the other games is somewhere in-between. Two games have #CW and are labeled.

https://consent.games

#nonprofit

[tomashradcky@mstdn.social]

@gabriel And you are definitely coming here to argue ‘not all men’.

[abhayakara@mastodon.nl]

@LeslieBurns @gabriel @amydiehl

One interesting thing they don't correct for is men who didn't have sex during the two-year period prior to the study.

Also, I worry this will be used to conclude, a la Dworkin/McKinnon that men are just naturally this way, rather than that we are socialized to behave this way pretty much from birth, and have to learn our way out of it, hopefully before we do something awful. The most commonly reported coercive technique is "tells her what she wants to hear..."

[abhayakara@mastodon.nl]

@LeslieBurns @gabriel @amydiehl

I mention this because it's been very clear to me for a long time that boys and young men need clear and explicit education on how to behave towards members of the desired sex (as do girls and young women).

And that ain't happening.

And bashing won't help.

[gabriel@col.social]

@TomasHradcky

As I say, not me, is what the paper says. You can read it yourself and make up your mind.

I think we need to understand the literature to be able to have strategies to curve this situation. It would be very different if we are talking of 95% of the population or if it the number is different.

Therefore it is important to clarify, in my mind, what the study actually claims.

[gabriel@col.social]

@abhayakara

I also concluded the same, that this could be used to argue that "men are this way". And while sexual aggression is a serious problem that is under-reported, a 95% is just too high. That's why I think it is important to clarify the number, and the context.