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  3. ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

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  • jackeric@beige.partyJ jackeric@beige.party

    @FediThing @docpop the chap's a PhD ๐Ÿ™ƒ

    schnedan@social.tchncs.deS This user is from outside of this forum
    schnedan@social.tchncs.deS This user is from outside of this forum
    schnedan@social.tchncs.de
    wrote last edited by
    #37

    @jackeric @FediThing @docpop I meet PhD which barely were able to fasten one's shoes... a PhD just means: get some 20+% more money for the same work.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • rjblaskiewicz@mstdn.socialR rjblaskiewicz@mstdn.social

      @docpop Um....this raises so many questions. Like where did they buy their advanced degrees?

      temptoetiam@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
      temptoetiam@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
      temptoetiam@eldritch.cafe
      wrote last edited by
      #38

      @rjblaskiewicz @docpop even worse: the guy teaches. In college.
      His ratemyprofessor page is... interesting.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

        ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

        > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

        yes, lol!

        Link Preview Image
        ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

        The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

        favicon

        404 Media (www.404media.co)

        rickf@indieweb.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
        rickf@indieweb.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
        rickf@indieweb.social
        wrote last edited by
        #39

        @docpop @digitalsnow

        I both cringe and laugh in professor.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

          ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

          > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

          yes, lol!

          Link Preview Image
          ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

          The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

          favicon

          404 Media (www.404media.co)

          alicemcalicepants@ohai.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
          alicemcalicepants@ohai.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
          alicemcalicepants@ohai.social
          wrote last edited by
          #40

          @docpop I read at least part of every book in the bibliography of my PhD thesis. Did I do it wrong? ๐Ÿ˜…

          paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • alicemcalicepants@ohai.socialA alicemcalicepants@ohai.social

            @docpop I read at least part of every book in the bibliography of my PhD thesis. Did I do it wrong? ๐Ÿ˜…

            paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
            paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
            paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange
            wrote last edited by
            #41

            @alicemcalicepants @docpop

            no, you did the self-torture that is a key part of a PhD program. ๐Ÿ™‚

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • wuweiwolf@tech.lgbtW wuweiwolf@tech.lgbt

              @docpop
              Unfortunately, I think this is a common attitude in many fields. As someone who has often needed to reproduce other scientists' work, I can confirm that I frequently check other peoples' citations in methodology that turn out to just be wrong. E.g., "As in Smith (2004), we decide the value of parameter X by applying formula Y to input Z." Often I find one of the following:

              - The citation does not spell out important details, which have never made it into the scientific record at all, but are spread informally among a particular clique of researchers who frequently collaborate. (Or they are in documentation that was not publicly archived, e.g. internal wikis, proprietary software code, etc.)
              - The citation is just to the wrong paper (e.g. the actual source is a different paper by the same author the year before, or the cited paper itself doesn't contain the full details and cites some earlier paper instead).

              wuweiwolf@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
              wuweiwolf@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
              wuweiwolf@tech.lgbt
              wrote last edited by
              #42

              @docpop

              - The cited work had an error that required a later correction to be mentioned in an erratum or subsequent article (e.g. fixing a typo in a formula), and the citing researchers were unaware of the correction, so their own work reproduces the same error.
              - The cited work had an error that was later corrected, and the citing researchers knew about the correction, but they didn't bother to mention it or cite the later work where the correction appears, so anyone trying to reproduce their results would have no idea that there's an inaccuracy that needs to be corrected.
              - The work that should have been cited is out of print and was never digitized, so rather than work with a research library to try to track down a copy and see what it says, the authors either don't double-check what it said, or cite some other work by the same author.

              This is a major problem! LLMs are both directly making the problem worse, and encouraging scientists to churn out publications without putting in the work to verify.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                yes, lol!

                Link Preview Image
                ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                favicon

                404 Media (www.404media.co)

                wuweiwolf@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
                wuweiwolf@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
                wuweiwolf@tech.lgbt
                wrote last edited by
                #43

                @docpop
                Unfortunately, I think this is a common attitude in many fields. As someone who has often needed to reproduce other scientists' work, I can confirm that I frequently check other peoples' citations in methodology that turn out to just be wrong. E.g., "As in Smith (2004), we decide the value of parameter X by applying formula Y to input Z." Often I find one of the following:

                - The citation does not spell out important details, which have never made it into the scientific record at all, but are spread informally among a particular clique of researchers who frequently collaborate. (Or they are in documentation that was not publicly archived, e.g. internal wikis, proprietary software code, etc.)
                - The citation is just to the wrong paper (e.g. the actual source is a different paper by the same author the year before, or the cited paper itself doesn't contain the full details and cites some earlier paper instead).

                wuweiwolf@tech.lgbtW 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • adriano@lile.clA adriano@lile.cl

                  @docpop @FediThing Well, his point is *slightly* more nuanced in that he's arguing "What if *I* checked the citations I added, but this other guy I co-author with did not on his part of the paper? Why am I responsible?"

                  To which I reply "sucks to be you, my guy."

                  quietewe@urbanists.socialQ This user is from outside of this forum
                  quietewe@urbanists.socialQ This user is from outside of this forum
                  quietewe@urbanists.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #44

                  @adriano @docpop @FediThing โ€œperhaps you could speak to your co-authors, my guyโ€

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                    ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                    > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                    yes, lol!

                    Link Preview Image
                    ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                    The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                    favicon

                    404 Media (www.404media.co)

                    abazigal@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                    abazigal@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                    abazigal@mastodon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #45

                    @docpop I almost read it in a sarcastic tone. Would be funny if he was deliberately trying to be contrarian (in a bad way) just to make the OPโ€™s point.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                      ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                      > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                      yes, lol!

                      Link Preview Image
                      ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                      The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                      favicon

                      404 Media (www.404media.co)

                      centdemeern1@eepy.moeC This user is from outside of this forum
                      centdemeern1@eepy.moeC This user is from outside of this forum
                      centdemeern1@eepy.moe
                      wrote last edited by
                      #46

                      @docpop@mastodon.social I can't believe anyone ever actually seriously thought they didn't have to look at the things they're citing

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • jamesmarshall@sfba.socialJ jamesmarshall@sfba.social

                        @docpop from his profile, Miller has a PhD from U. Chicago, a JD from Stanford, and is a professor at Smith College. ๐Ÿ˜• I think this reflects badly on every one of those-- what is research from these places actually worth, if fake citations are common there?

                        He and his defenders are basically saying "everyone does it, and you're naive to complain." If it's true that everyone does it, that reflects badly on modern academia as a whole.

                        Any academic researchers want to chime in here?

                        a_cubed@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                        a_cubed@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                        a_cubed@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #47

                        @jamesmarshall @docpop
                        He's wrong. Not everyone does it. He's trying an argumentum ad populum. I'm on the publication ethics committee of a major Comp Sci academic society publisher and we would redact papers with multiple non-existent citations and ban the authors from submitting to our publications for at least a year.
                        You submit it as your work, you stand byit as valid. Jointly and severally, although we sometimes go easy on student joint authors with faculty (faculty should know better).

                        jamesmarshall@sfba.socialJ a_cubed@mastodon.socialA 2 Replies Last reply
                        0
                        • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                          ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                          > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                          yes, lol!

                          Link Preview Image
                          ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                          The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                          favicon

                          404 Media (www.404media.co)

                          dukeduke@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                          dukeduke@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                          dukeduke@mastodon.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #48

                          @docpop That fucker belongs on Fux News. ""People are saying" means that's good enough for me to cite!" ๐Ÿ™„

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                            ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                            > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                            yes, lol!

                            Link Preview Image
                            ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                            The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                            favicon

                            404 Media (www.404media.co)

                            linkachus17@furry.engineerL This user is from outside of this forum
                            linkachus17@furry.engineerL This user is from outside of this forum
                            linkachus17@furry.engineer
                            wrote last edited by
                            #49

                            @docpop Clearly those people never had experience in making research papers or something like that. And that's bad

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • a_cubed@mastodon.socialA a_cubed@mastodon.social

                              @jamesmarshall @docpop
                              He's wrong. Not everyone does it. He's trying an argumentum ad populum. I'm on the publication ethics committee of a major Comp Sci academic society publisher and we would redact papers with multiple non-existent citations and ban the authors from submitting to our publications for at least a year.
                              You submit it as your work, you stand byit as valid. Jointly and severally, although we sometimes go easy on student joint authors with faculty (faculty should know better).

                              jamesmarshall@sfba.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jamesmarshall@sfba.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jamesmarshall@sfba.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #50

                              @a_cubed @docpop thanks for your comment, very informative. I assume your academic society publisher is international? I'm wondering if this is a US problem.

                              a_cubed@mastodon.socialA 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • adriano@lile.clA adriano@lile.cl

                                @docpop @FediThing Well, his point is *slightly* more nuanced in that he's arguing "What if *I* checked the citations I added, but this other guy I co-author with did not on his part of the paper? Why am I responsible?"

                                To which I reply "sucks to be you, my guy."

                                heptasean@social.tchncs.deH This user is from outside of this forum
                                heptasean@social.tchncs.deH This user is from outside of this forum
                                heptasean@social.tchncs.de
                                wrote last edited by
                                #51

                                @adriano @docpop @FediThing Depending on what is usual in his academic field, his thoughts are maybe less โ€œHow the f is he a professor?!?โ€ outlandish than the Fedi commenters here think.

                                For papers with lots of authors and quite strict division of labour for different parts of the paper and different sub-groups of authors, I can very well see that it maybe has not been usual up to now to know every other author and double check their work.

                                Still seems net positive to me to reinforce responsibility for things with your name on it.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                                  ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                                  > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                                  yes, lol!

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                                  The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                                  favicon

                                  404 Media (www.404media.co)

                                  C This user is from outside of this forum
                                  C This user is from outside of this forum
                                  carl@chaos.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #52

                                  @docpop the responder does not understand Science

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • marta@corteximplant.comM marta@corteximplant.com

                                    @docpop to add, broken trust from your colleagues has been a problem before AI too, here's a particularly popular story https://laskowskilab.faculty.ucdavis.edu/2020/01/29/retractions/

                                    heptasean@social.tchncs.deH This user is from outside of this forum
                                    heptasean@social.tchncs.deH This user is from outside of this forum
                                    heptasean@social.tchncs.de
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #53

                                    @marta Thank you! I'm also a bit disturbed by the comments here seeing Miller as being _completely_ out of line and ridiculing him for the points raised. His point is more reasonable than the โ€œWhy is that guy a professor?!?โ€ mob thinks, but in the end still false in my opinion. Yes, even if you work in a field with papers with lots of authors and quite loose cooperations, you are and should be responsible for papers with your name on it. Laskowski investigating the data manipulation and retracting the papers is a good example for taking that responsibility. @docpop

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • unchartedworlds@scicomm.xyzU unchartedworlds@scicomm.xyz

                                      @FediThing @docpop

                                      He said further down in the thread what he thinks citations are for:

                                      "The citations are there to help readers who want to learn more about a sub topic, quickly locate new papers. They also function as a business suit, signaling that you're a serious person."

                                      (yikes)

                                      and various people have replied to that saying no that is not, in fact, what they are for!

                                      congusbongus@mastodon.gamedev.placeC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      congusbongus@mastodon.gamedev.placeC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      congusbongus@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #54

                                      @unchartedworlds @FediThing @docpop so all those Wikipedia nerds adding [citation needed] tags just want more reading material? TIL wow lmao

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                                        ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                                        > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                                        yes, lol!

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                                        The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                                        favicon

                                        404 Media (www.404media.co)

                                        liztai@hachyderm.ioL This user is from outside of this forum
                                        liztai@hachyderm.ioL This user is from outside of this forum
                                        liztai@hachyderm.io
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #55

                                        @docpop dafuq isn't that a basic skill๐Ÿ˜…

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • docpop@mastodon.socialD docpop@mastodon.social

                                          ArXiv announces a ban on AI content and the responses are hilarious.

                                          > You expect us to actually read the papers we cite?!

                                          yes, lol!

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          ArXiv to Ban Researchers for a Year if They Submit AI Slop

                                          The change comes as arXiv and others struggle to manage an influx of AI-generated materials masquerading as rigorous science.

                                          favicon

                                          404 Media (www.404media.co)

                                          onnob@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          onnob@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          onnob@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #56

                                          @docpop jesus, you have to check everything AI writes. Citations or otherwise. And it can be a great help in finding sources, but you have to check everything. By hand. And brain. Yes, all of it.

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