So it turns out that having the most *expensive* military tech in the world may not be the best strategy, huh?
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So it turns out that having the most *expensive* military tech in the world may not be the best strategy, huh?
Who could have known that having very expensive equipment & arms/ammunition that take a long time to make might not be an advantage?
goddamn how are we the protoss and zerg at the same time
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The thing about the minesweepers comes from my ex-Navy spouse. He pays attention to exactly what equipment the US Navy has, how much it costs, how old it is, & how difficult it is to replace (they have a lot of ships & equipment that are very difficult to replace because they just stopped making any more of them a very long time ago).
Last year, the Trump admin decommissioned HALF of the US Navy's Avenger-class mine countermeasure ships. So there were 8. Now there are 4.
Since he keeps up on all this stuff & has knowledge of naval operations, spouse has a pretty good idea of what the Navy is capable of, & he thinks the US is pretty much fucked when it comes to the Straits of Hormuz.
They didn't even THINK about this once before doing it.
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@quixoticgeek
I believe so. They didn't plan for any of this.@artemis yikes. If Wikipedia is right. The last four were moved *from* Bahrain in January. Madness.
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@quixoticgeek
I believe so. They didn't plan for any of this.@artemis @quixoticgeek There are UK minesweepers in Bahrain. I hope we don’t join this illegal and stupid war.
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@artemis @quixoticgeek There are UK minesweepers in Bahrain. I hope we don’t join this illegal and stupid war.
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I do not think the US is prepared for how this is going to go.
I think we might just get stomped down by a country many folks here think of as "backwards" & believe to have far inferior military capabilities.
If Iran is laying mines using small boats, & the US has just 4 minesweeper ships, who is better equipped? Seems to me, the US can keep shooting those boats & Iran can just get more. But if Iran destroys their minesweepers, well, they're gone.
@artemis Iran is not ill-equipped to fight a war. it is very good at restraint. the reason there are no USA boots on the ground is because the commanders are chickenshit assholes who know they'll get torn to peices the moment they do that. Iranians are armed. Iran has a professional military. and like Hezbollah, they will sacrifice cheap hardware for as long as they can before they get into heavier weaponry and sacrificing soldiers' lives.
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I do not think the US is prepared for how this is going to go.
I think we might just get stomped down by a country many folks here think of as "backwards" & believe to have far inferior military capabilities.
If Iran is laying mines using small boats, & the US has just 4 minesweeper ships, who is better equipped? Seems to me, the US can keep shooting those boats & Iran can just get more. But if Iran destroys their minesweepers, well, they're gone.
@artemis Asymmetric warfare is a real thing.
Just one example.
The British RAF celebrates taking down two drones (I'll take those to be Shahed-136 drones, unit cost about $35.000) with two ASRAAM (Unit cost >£200,000) by scrambling a F35 (probably the F-35B Lightning II, unit cost $109 million to $135 million+) and two Typhoons (unit cost about $200 million to $300 million).
So that's roughly (not calculating fuel, deployment, training, personnel, etc. and taking the cheapest known costs)
$264.857 + $264.857 + $109.000.000 + $200.000.000 + $200.000.000 =
$509.529.714 versus $70.000.
LMAO.
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@artemis @quixoticgeek Ah, didn’t know that. I do know, though, that other vessels have been equipped to do mine hunting activities as older sweepers are phased out with crews redeployed as teams to those ships………don’t know if the US has also done this.
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Since he keeps up on all this stuff & has knowledge of naval operations, spouse has a pretty good idea of what the Navy is capable of, & he thinks the US is pretty much fucked when it comes to the Straits of Hormuz.
They didn't even THINK about this once before doing it.
I also think they didn't comprehend that Iran has prepared for this. I don't mean bracing up due to recent threats. I mean, the US has been threatening their very existence for such a very long time.
They are prepared, they have strategies, they don't use expensive tech where something else will do, & they have made themselves intimately familiar with their enemies' capabilities. What else would anyone expect them to do?
They knew we intended to come for them eventually.
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@artemis @quixoticgeek Ah, didn’t know that. I do know, though, that other vessels have been equipped to do mine hunting activities as older sweepers are phased out with crews redeployed as teams to those ships………don’t know if the US has also done this.
@Jeffrey @quixoticgeek
I think spouse said that technically the US Navy has other ships that are supposed to have this capability. They just aren't actually any good at it. -
@artemis Asymmetric warfare is a real thing.
Just one example.
The British RAF celebrates taking down two drones (I'll take those to be Shahed-136 drones, unit cost about $35.000) with two ASRAAM (Unit cost >£200,000) by scrambling a F35 (probably the F-35B Lightning II, unit cost $109 million to $135 million+) and two Typhoons (unit cost about $200 million to $300 million).
So that's roughly (not calculating fuel, deployment, training, personnel, etc. and taking the cheapest known costs)
$264.857 + $264.857 + $109.000.000 + $200.000.000 + $200.000.000 =
$509.529.714 versus $70.000.
LMAO.
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@artemis Iran is not ill-equipped to fight a war. it is very good at restraint. the reason there are no USA boots on the ground is because the commanders are chickenshit assholes who know they'll get torn to peices the moment they do that. Iranians are armed. Iran has a professional military. and like Hezbollah, they will sacrifice cheap hardware for as long as they can before they get into heavier weaponry and sacrificing soldiers' lives.
@burnitdown
I just added a clarification in case it was unclear in my post: I don't believe their military capabilities are insignificant, but I know that a lot of people DO (or did) believe that. -
@twobiscuits
Well, yeah. But these people don't have memories that go back that far, so Ukraine is the "ok, how did you not realize this?" example. -
@artemis Asymmetric warfare is a real thing.
Just one example.
The British RAF celebrates taking down two drones (I'll take those to be Shahed-136 drones, unit cost about $35.000) with two ASRAAM (Unit cost >£200,000) by scrambling a F35 (probably the F-35B Lightning II, unit cost $109 million to $135 million+) and two Typhoons (unit cost about $200 million to $300 million).
So that's roughly (not calculating fuel, deployment, training, personnel, etc. and taking the cheapest known costs)
$264.857 + $264.857 + $109.000.000 + $200.000.000 + $200.000.000 =
$509.529.714 versus $70.000.
LMAO.
Okay, okay, one more example, just for fun.
The sober comment of a NATO commander afterwards: “We’re fucked.”
Exercise: Ukrainian drone pilots wipe out NATO battalions
During the "Hedgehog 2025" exercise in Estonia, NATO troops were clearly shown their limits in a duel with Ukrainian drone teams.
Militär Aktuell – Militär News & Analysen zu internationalen Krisen, Streitkräften & der Defence-Industrie (militaeraktuell.at)
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@artemis yikes. If Wikipedia is right. The last four were moved *from* Bahrain in January. Madness.
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Iran appears to be using shortwave radio to send cyphered messages. It's an old school Soviet method of communication. And guess what? It works. None of it goes through a computer, so there is nothing to hack. It's inexpensive & easy to do, & you can just keep changing frequencies when your opponents start interfering with the one you're using.
All the fancy spy equipment the US has? Not meant to deal with that simple, low-tech tactic.
@artemis Pentagon Persian Gulf war games were notorious....cuz they were unwinnable
And then they created false circumstances, basically cheating for the usa
And STILL the games are unwinnable.
This was with strategists
And people who think beyond the end case scenarios (death camps and final solutions) as a feature and not a horror
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As we have ALREADY seen in Ukraine, military "superpowers" have a real problem facing off against forces defending their homeland using cheap & quick-to-manufacture arms & equipment.
@artemis where have I heard these lessons before? Afghanistan, Afghanistan (Soviet), Vietnam, Korea, WWII Eastern European front, Afghanistan (British), the US fucking Revolution?
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I also think they didn't comprehend that Iran has prepared for this. I don't mean bracing up due to recent threats. I mean, the US has been threatening their very existence for such a very long time.
They are prepared, they have strategies, they don't use expensive tech where something else will do, & they have made themselves intimately familiar with their enemies' capabilities. What else would anyone expect them to do?
They knew we intended to come for them eventually.
Delusional racism...
These motherfuckers think they are the Master Race so they can't actually comprehend that brown people could beat them. They think they win by default.
Their brains are so cooked. They did not fucking believe this could possibly be difficult.
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Delusional racism...
These motherfuckers think they are the Master Race so they can't actually comprehend that brown people could beat them. They think they win by default.
Their brains are so cooked. They did not fucking believe this could possibly be difficult.
The Trump administration is possibly the most hopped-up on their own propaganda administration the US has ever seen. These people are drunk on it.
They think they have a literally invincible army, & they believe that it is impossible for white people to lose to brown folks (among many, many other false beliefs that are going to kick them in the ass).
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The Trump administration is possibly the most hopped-up on their own propaganda administration the US has ever seen. These people are drunk on it.
They think they have a literally invincible army, & they believe that it is impossible for white people to lose to brown folks (among many, many other false beliefs that are going to kick them in the ass).
Also, I suspect the US is going to turn out to not be as well-armed or prepared as they think because in Trump's kleptocracy, you gotta think some wild corruption is going to come to light & some armaments that are supposed to be there aren't & some equipment that is supposed to work doesn't.
Theft. Fraud. Graft. Cutting corners. It's a mess for sure.
