Does anyone have a screepcap or link saved of the interaction about a decade ago when a trans girl on reddit asked an adult cis man how often he thought about being a girl and his answer was something like "I dont think ive ever thought about that".
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@jaye @glassblowerscat @siege Thanks. 🫂 At least I'm finally on my way. And feeling a whole lot better mentally as well. Better late than never.
@AppleFangirl @siege @glassblowerscat
It’s amazing how different it feels to simply be yourself around safe, loving people. I had no idea how grating it was to force myself into “boy mode” all these years. -
@siege @valentine there is a fourth group which is small but may hopefully get bigger: people who were told all their lives, by at least some of the people around them, that they are the ones who ultimately know their own gender, that being trans is an actual possibility for them. I know some kids like that.
It seems a little like the tragectory that sexuality has taken (and some of this will likely depend on where you are). Nowadays, there are a lot more kids who grow up knowing that they might be gay, that they can just pay attention to their own feelings of attraction. It's not perfect; those kids are still moving through a highly heteronormative world. But it is easier than it was thirty years ago.
@eruonna @siege I totally agree.
I'd only add that I would love to see an increase in discourse about the different ways that gay attraction can feel from straight attraction when you're young. Queer attraction is not just about who it's aimed at -- it's a difference in vibe altogether.
Essentially, how being attracted to guys can often feel really different when you're also a guy, than attraction to guys feels when you're a girl.
That shit would have REALLY helped me out when I was going through puberty, because I knew *for sure* that I was attracted to guys. It would have helped to understand that I was attracted to them in a boy-way.
It's hard to parse out exactly what that means, and I think some people would push back if they thought the description of it took anything away from the ways women could be attracted to men.
But like, I think everyone would accept that being attracted to women is a different sentiment for a lesbian than it is for a straight man. It is qualitatively different. The same goes for a little gay boy in a girl's body, vs. a little straight girl.
My sexual orientation was set -- it was just mis-labeled due to my looking like a girl, and the intensity of it was one of the things that kept me assuming I was a straight woman for a tragicomically long time.
I hope that gay and lesbian trans people can start putting their early experiences out there, so that pre-transition kids can see what they vibe with, and gain some validation from. -
@valentine @siege The GDB was kind of that for me, and I've seen a few other lists floating around (mostly transfem focused, though I don't know if that is a tendency for which lists exist or just my own identity steering what I see).
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@AppleFangirl @siege @glassblowerscat
It’s amazing how different it feels to simply be yourself around safe, loving people. I had no idea how grating it was to force myself into “boy mode” all these years.@jaye @siege @glassblowerscat Yeah boy mode sucks.
Happy you found safe and loving people. 
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@valentine @siege The Gender Dysphoria Bible
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@valentine @siege The Gender Dysphoria Bible
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@eruonna @siege I totally agree.
I'd only add that I would love to see an increase in discourse about the different ways that gay attraction can feel from straight attraction when you're young. Queer attraction is not just about who it's aimed at -- it's a difference in vibe altogether.
Essentially, how being attracted to guys can often feel really different when you're also a guy, than attraction to guys feels when you're a girl.
That shit would have REALLY helped me out when I was going through puberty, because I knew *for sure* that I was attracted to guys. It would have helped to understand that I was attracted to them in a boy-way.
It's hard to parse out exactly what that means, and I think some people would push back if they thought the description of it took anything away from the ways women could be attracted to men.
But like, I think everyone would accept that being attracted to women is a different sentiment for a lesbian than it is for a straight man. It is qualitatively different. The same goes for a little gay boy in a girl's body, vs. a little straight girl.
My sexual orientation was set -- it was just mis-labeled due to my looking like a girl, and the intensity of it was one of the things that kept me assuming I was a straight woman for a tragicomically long time.
I hope that gay and lesbian trans people can start putting their early experiences out there, so that pre-transition kids can see what they vibe with, and gain some validation from.Oh yeah, as soon as I started trying to date as a lesbian, everything made so much more sense to me
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Oh yeah, as soon as I started trying to date as a lesbian, everything made so much more sense to me
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@jaye @glassblowerscat @siege All I know is repressing that and internalizing it for five decades almost killed me a few times.
@AppleFangirl @jaye @glassblowerscat @siege
I have not thought about repressing or internalizing, but the ‘almost killed me’ has 1
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@jaye @glassblowerscat @siege All I know is repressing that and internalizing it for five decades almost killed me a few times.
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@glassblowerscat @jaye @siege Thanks.
️ I just wonder how many people out there are going through what I went through for years on end but will suffer in silence due to fear or other reasons. -
@eruonna @siege I totally agree.
I'd only add that I would love to see an increase in discourse about the different ways that gay attraction can feel from straight attraction when you're young. Queer attraction is not just about who it's aimed at -- it's a difference in vibe altogether.
Essentially, how being attracted to guys can often feel really different when you're also a guy, than attraction to guys feels when you're a girl.
That shit would have REALLY helped me out when I was going through puberty, because I knew *for sure* that I was attracted to guys. It would have helped to understand that I was attracted to them in a boy-way.
It's hard to parse out exactly what that means, and I think some people would push back if they thought the description of it took anything away from the ways women could be attracted to men.
But like, I think everyone would accept that being attracted to women is a different sentiment for a lesbian than it is for a straight man. It is qualitatively different. The same goes for a little gay boy in a girl's body, vs. a little straight girl.
My sexual orientation was set -- it was just mis-labeled due to my looking like a girl, and the intensity of it was one of the things that kept me assuming I was a straight woman for a tragicomically long time.
I hope that gay and lesbian trans people can start putting their early experiences out there, so that pre-transition kids can see what they vibe with, and gain some validation from.@eruonna @siege I think the Tumbler/Twitter "autoandrophilia" tag scenes are a gift to the era and something that would have been amazing to have 10-20 years ago.
Back when I was still discovering stuff in 2016, discourse was still about "soft boy uWu" and how problematic it was to sexually objectify us by saying we could be hot.
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@eruonna @siege I totally agree.
I'd only add that I would love to see an increase in discourse about the different ways that gay attraction can feel from straight attraction when you're young. Queer attraction is not just about who it's aimed at -- it's a difference in vibe altogether.
Essentially, how being attracted to guys can often feel really different when you're also a guy, than attraction to guys feels when you're a girl.
That shit would have REALLY helped me out when I was going through puberty, because I knew *for sure* that I was attracted to guys. It would have helped to understand that I was attracted to them in a boy-way.
It's hard to parse out exactly what that means, and I think some people would push back if they thought the description of it took anything away from the ways women could be attracted to men.
But like, I think everyone would accept that being attracted to women is a different sentiment for a lesbian than it is for a straight man. It is qualitatively different. The same goes for a little gay boy in a girl's body, vs. a little straight girl.
My sexual orientation was set -- it was just mis-labeled due to my looking like a girl, and the intensity of it was one of the things that kept me assuming I was a straight woman for a tragicomically long time.
I hope that gay and lesbian trans people can start putting their early experiences out there, so that pre-transition kids can see what they vibe with, and gain some validation from.@valentine 1000%
I swear gay trans people have a very different experience to straight trans people for exactly this reason. When you're straight, you're criticized and shamed for being attracted to your AGAB but at least you know you're different and you process that early.
When you're gay, it's really easy for gender feelings to get mixed up with sexuality. "You don't want to be a girl/boy, you're just attracted ti girls/boys. Stop being weird about it!" My egg would have shattered in middle school if I'd able/allowed to tell the difference between attraction and gender envy. But literally everything I was told by the society that raised me was that my gender envy was probably just really fucked up attraction.
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@valentine 1000%
I swear gay trans people have a very different experience to straight trans people for exactly this reason. When you're straight, you're criticized and shamed for being attracted to your AGAB but at least you know you're different and you process that early.
When you're gay, it's really easy for gender feelings to get mixed up with sexuality. "You don't want to be a girl/boy, you're just attracted ti girls/boys. Stop being weird about it!" My egg would have shattered in middle school if I'd able/allowed to tell the difference between attraction and gender envy. But literally everything I was told by the society that raised me was that my gender envy was probably just really fucked up attraction.
Oh, definitely. Though I'm still not entirely sure I know the difference between attraction, gender envy, and regular envy. At least not all the time.
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@eruonna @siege I think the Tumbler/Twitter "autoandrophilia" tag scenes are a gift to the era and something that would have been amazing to have 10-20 years ago.
Back when I was still discovering stuff in 2016, discourse was still about "soft boy uWu" and how problematic it was to sexually objectify us by saying we could be hot.@eruonna @siege I just feel really good about this era for gay trans boys. Even with all the political awfulness, just knowledge and resources and media is so much easier to come by.
It's getting harder and harder to remember or even describe what it was like to be a gay boy who looked like a normal chick, and have no internet, no ability to research anything, nobody to talk to, barely any cis gays or lesbians poking their head up, nothing. And to try and date misogynistic southern boys, and to navigate their abuses and assaults alongside the mystifying and horrid southern femininity demands.
Nowadays kids got yaoi on tap.
Problems are different, but it just feels like there is a bigger arsenal with which to fight and defend, and collectivize. -
Oh, definitely. Though I'm still not entirely sure I know the difference between attraction, gender envy, and regular envy. At least not all the time.
@eruonna It's still a work in progress but I think I can usually tell these days.
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@valentine 1000%
I swear gay trans people have a very different experience to straight trans people for exactly this reason. When you're straight, you're criticized and shamed for being attracted to your AGAB but at least you know you're different and you process that early.
When you're gay, it's really easy for gender feelings to get mixed up with sexuality. "You don't want to be a girl/boy, you're just attracted ti girls/boys. Stop being weird about it!" My egg would have shattered in middle school if I'd able/allowed to tell the difference between attraction and gender envy. But literally everything I was told by the society that raised me was that my gender envy was probably just really fucked up attraction.
@faithisleaping @eruonna @siege Yeah, exactly!
That's what I meant by the "closet within a closet."
Gay/lesbian/NB trans people have to dig twice as deep, to figure out what the fuck is going on. I'm not trying to play oppression Olympics or anything, but the hardships are different and we require different advice and clues.
Even just being told about "jealusty" -- "You feel like you want to fuck him AND be him" -- would help! It's a thing in cis gay life, but it's SUPERCHARGED for queer trans people, haha. -
@valentine 1000%
I swear gay trans people have a very different experience to straight trans people for exactly this reason. When you're straight, you're criticized and shamed for being attracted to your AGAB but at least you know you're different and you process that early.
When you're gay, it's really easy for gender feelings to get mixed up with sexuality. "You don't want to be a girl/boy, you're just attracted ti girls/boys. Stop being weird about it!" My egg would have shattered in middle school if I'd able/allowed to tell the difference between attraction and gender envy. But literally everything I was told by the society that raised me was that my gender envy was probably just really fucked up attraction.
@faithisleaping @valentine @eruonna @siege
Yeah, 6th grade I had so much gender envy that I chalked up to attraction. And it wasn't attraction at all.
But yeah I just believed everyone that told me I was a boy. I questioned it a bit around 5th 6th grade when gender envy started hitting me. But I eventually chalked it up to these weird crushes, that weren't crushes at all.
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