I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
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@WeirdWriter this is a huge deal, you see it all the time with individuals in oppressed or underserved groups who are very willing to be a token to further their own oppression. you can't outsource your conscience, so we have to be able to hear uncomfortable opinions without letting an individual play spokesperson. good insight, thank you for this
@capn_b Yep! You hit the nail on the head! It’s extremely difficult and frustrating because a non-disabled person can sincerely read these thoughts and opinions, and, let’s say, ban audiobooks from an educational curriculum because a blind person hates audiobooks, but if you ban audiobooks from an educational curriculum, that cancels out the dyslexic that might need or want them, the audio learners, things like that, except it’s really hard to fight against because it’s coming from within the community so that’s why I get super frustrated at these kinds of blind people that are making advocating harder not easier
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I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
I know blind people, actually, the majority of blind people, that *love* cloud based LLMs and can't stand any critique of the shitty people behind the tool, let alone the companies.
I know blind people that want TTS narrating audiobooks and audio description for everyone instead of humans.
I know blind people that sincerely believe audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting because Braille is better so audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting.
I know blind people that argue against having audio description and against accessibility because we should be fully independent.
Sighted people must understand that in the blind community especially, there's a *LOT* of blind people and even otherwise disabled people that *hate* all this “PC nonsense” PC is political correctness, but they're arguing against their own interests.
It happens in my own gay community too so instead of listening to blind people that hate other blind people, why not listen to a collective of blind people/other disabled people working to better local or digital environments.
I honestly didn't like the Against Access article when it came out, and I certainly don't like this quote being used to argue *against* access/accessibility instead of participating in an ongoing conversation about an optional filter.
Disagree with the filter all you want but *don't use another disabled person's shortsightedness to take away my access.* https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29496#issuecomment-4429977820 #Accessibility #AltText #A11y #Disability #Blind #Mastodon #Fediverse
Sometimes, images are confusing or just difficult.
I really struggle with light mode, so when someone screenshots some post from Out There, and it's light mode, I either need #AltText or I need to save it and have my computer do OCR on it.
Wouldn't it make more sense to copy/paste the text?
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@WeirdWriter this is a huge deal, you see it all the time with individuals in oppressed or underserved groups who are very willing to be a token to further their own oppression. you can't outsource your conscience, so we have to be able to hear uncomfortable opinions without letting an individual play spokesperson. good insight, thank you for this
@capn_b And here’s another example. Can a person get really tedious with this? Yeah, but I would rather have it than not simply because it tells me so many other things. It tells me how the person articulates themselves by how they describe and the words they use. It tells me about their personality through the things they wear and otherwise https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm22/bm2201/bm220107.htm
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Sometimes, images are confusing or just difficult.
I really struggle with light mode, so when someone screenshots some post from Out There, and it's light mode, I either need #AltText or I need to save it and have my computer do OCR on it.
Wouldn't it make more sense to copy/paste the text?
@MannyDexter Absolutely! I’ll never understand the folks that’s screenshot a wall of text when you could just post the text. For the folks on Instagram, even they have an area where you can write text as you’re uploading the picture.
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I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
I know blind people, actually, the majority of blind people, that *love* cloud based LLMs and can't stand any critique of the shitty people behind the tool, let alone the companies.
I know blind people that want TTS narrating audiobooks and audio description for everyone instead of humans.
I know blind people that sincerely believe audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting because Braille is better so audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting.
I know blind people that argue against having audio description and against accessibility because we should be fully independent.
Sighted people must understand that in the blind community especially, there's a *LOT* of blind people and even otherwise disabled people that *hate* all this “PC nonsense” PC is political correctness, but they're arguing against their own interests.
It happens in my own gay community too so instead of listening to blind people that hate other blind people, why not listen to a collective of blind people/other disabled people working to better local or digital environments.
I honestly didn't like the Against Access article when it came out, and I certainly don't like this quote being used to argue *against* access/accessibility instead of participating in an ongoing conversation about an optional filter.
Disagree with the filter all you want but *don't use another disabled person's shortsightedness to take away my access.* https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29496#issuecomment-4429977820 #Accessibility #AltText #A11y #Disability #Blind #Mastodon #Fediverse
@WeirdWriter It is also a huge misinterpretation of the original article. It is denouncing performative access, which is actually mainly about the sighted people feeling good about themselves and ticking the "access" box, rather than actually communicating to their audience. If anything, the next few paragraphs after the quote are about how image descriptions should be used.
I understand this article similar to when I say that I don't want wheelchair accessibility if it means getting into a building through the garbage room: it isn't a call to keep steps everywhere. -
@WeirdWriter It is also a huge misinterpretation of the original article. It is denouncing performative access, which is actually mainly about the sighted people feeling good about themselves and ticking the "access" box, rather than actually communicating to their audience. If anything, the next few paragraphs after the quote are about how image descriptions should be used.
I understand this article similar to when I say that I don't want wheelchair accessibility if it means getting into a building through the garbage room: it isn't a call to keep steps everywhere.Yes! I wasn't a fan of some paragraphs in there, but yep, that overall point still stands! I do think one thing leads to another and say, maybe, maybe, even if non-disabled people are doing the access out of a feel good moment now, but maybe that will transform into something more sincere in the future but that's just a hope I have and isn't backed up by anything @etn
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@MannyDexter Absolutely! I’ll never understand the folks that’s screenshot a wall of text when you could just post the text. For the folks on Instagram, even they have an area where you can write text as you’re uploading the picture.
@WeirdWriter @MannyDexter After joining Mastodon and broader Fedi, I learned about alt text and how common place it is here. I am fine with idea of alt text so I struggle but do some for photos (mostly of my cat) and sometimes screenshots. As alt text is available everywhere on Fedi, finding Japanese fan artists for the game I enjoy and then some manga panels but... You can guess. Without OCR you need to be native or have some degree in Japanese to read, even with OCR it's still a struggle to translate. As person with rather still good eyesight (after whole childhood behind the screen) I still appreciate alt text not only as explainer but also as focusing on important parts, telling neat details or plain and simple have text on image in plain text to copy and translate. My English is above average but it's not my native, I sometimes attribute different meanings to words. So if some wording pique my interest to shove it in dictionary and see synonyms, I appreciate ability to copy paste. I would hope that more artists described their art or at least comic/manga panels to include alt text.
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I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
I know blind people, actually, the majority of blind people, that *love* cloud based LLMs and can't stand any critique of the shitty people behind the tool, let alone the companies.
I know blind people that want TTS narrating audiobooks and audio description for everyone instead of humans.
I know blind people that sincerely believe audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting because Braille is better so audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting.
I know blind people that argue against having audio description and against accessibility because we should be fully independent.
Sighted people must understand that in the blind community especially, there's a *LOT* of blind people and even otherwise disabled people that *hate* all this “PC nonsense” PC is political correctness, but they're arguing against their own interests.
It happens in my own gay community too so instead of listening to blind people that hate other blind people, why not listen to a collective of blind people/other disabled people working to better local or digital environments.
I honestly didn't like the Against Access article when it came out, and I certainly don't like this quote being used to argue *against* access/accessibility instead of participating in an ongoing conversation about an optional filter.
Disagree with the filter all you want but *don't use another disabled person's shortsightedness to take away my access.* https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29496#issuecomment-4429977820 #Accessibility #AltText #A11y #Disability #Blind #Mastodon #Fediverse
@WeirdWriter My worry about a filter like that is that it would end up propagating alt text that is essentially useless and done just so the person can be seen by the unobservant as taking part in creating access. For example alt text that is just the identical text of the post copied and pasted into the alt text box. I could also see this leading to an increase in LLM-rendered descriptions ant tbh I don't want people to have more reasons to use LLMs.
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@WeirdWriter My worry about a filter like that is that it would end up propagating alt text that is essentially useless and done just so the person can be seen by the unobservant as taking part in creating access. For example alt text that is just the identical text of the post copied and pasted into the alt text box. I could also see this leading to an increase in LLM-rendered descriptions ant tbh I don't want people to have more reasons to use LLMs.
@WeirdWriter Where that Against Acess essay is concerned, it's got a lot o embedded problems for sure. The multiple mentions of going around touching people without a single mention of consent particularlyu bothers me. Of course, not every single thing can be accounted for in a single essay, but seems like a glaring omission to me.
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@WeirdWriter My worry about a filter like that is that it would end up propagating alt text that is essentially useless and done just so the person can be seen by the unobservant as taking part in creating access. For example alt text that is just the identical text of the post copied and pasted into the alt text box. I could also see this leading to an increase in LLM-rendered descriptions ant tbh I don't want people to have more reasons to use LLMs.
@JustGrist Yeah. I'm not sure how to fight against that. In truth, I'd love a feature more where someone can officially suggest Alt Text and their suggestion gets applied to the metadata of an image, since one can edit the alt text metadata, but I'd need to think about how suggestions could best be applied and not yuck up the UI for others
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I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
I know blind people, actually, the majority of blind people, that *love* cloud based LLMs and can't stand any critique of the shitty people behind the tool, let alone the companies.
I know blind people that want TTS narrating audiobooks and audio description for everyone instead of humans.
I know blind people that sincerely believe audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting because Braille is better so audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting.
I know blind people that argue against having audio description and against accessibility because we should be fully independent.
Sighted people must understand that in the blind community especially, there's a *LOT* of blind people and even otherwise disabled people that *hate* all this “PC nonsense” PC is political correctness, but they're arguing against their own interests.
It happens in my own gay community too so instead of listening to blind people that hate other blind people, why not listen to a collective of blind people/other disabled people working to better local or digital environments.
I honestly didn't like the Against Access article when it came out, and I certainly don't like this quote being used to argue *against* access/accessibility instead of participating in an ongoing conversation about an optional filter.
Disagree with the filter all you want but *don't use another disabled person's shortsightedness to take away my access.* https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29496#issuecomment-4429977820 #Accessibility #AltText #A11y #Disability #Blind #Mastodon #Fediverse
@WeirdWriter Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind with a lot of this.
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@WeirdWriter Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind with a lot of this.
@KaraLG84 Can I use that? Because that's golden!
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@KaraLG84 Can I use that? Because that's golden!
@WeirdWriter Yeah if you like. It's quite a common phrase this side of the pond.
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I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
I know blind people, actually, the majority of blind people, that *love* cloud based LLMs and can't stand any critique of the shitty people behind the tool, let alone the companies.
I know blind people that want TTS narrating audiobooks and audio description for everyone instead of humans.
I know blind people that sincerely believe audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting because Braille is better so audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting.
I know blind people that argue against having audio description and against accessibility because we should be fully independent.
Sighted people must understand that in the blind community especially, there's a *LOT* of blind people and even otherwise disabled people that *hate* all this “PC nonsense” PC is political correctness, but they're arguing against their own interests.
It happens in my own gay community too so instead of listening to blind people that hate other blind people, why not listen to a collective of blind people/other disabled people working to better local or digital environments.
I honestly didn't like the Against Access article when it came out, and I certainly don't like this quote being used to argue *against* access/accessibility instead of participating in an ongoing conversation about an optional filter.
Disagree with the filter all you want but *don't use another disabled person's shortsightedness to take away my access.* https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29496#issuecomment-4429977820 #Accessibility #AltText #A11y #Disability #Blind #Mastodon #Fediverse
@WeirdWriter@caneandable.social I'm gonna alt text even more just to spite them
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I know blind people that willingly don't describe their images on Facebook.
I know blind people, actually, the majority of blind people, that *love* cloud based LLMs and can't stand any critique of the shitty people behind the tool, let alone the companies.
I know blind people that want TTS narrating audiobooks and audio description for everyone instead of humans.
I know blind people that sincerely believe audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting because Braille is better so audiobooks should *never* be used in an educational setting.
I know blind people that argue against having audio description and against accessibility because we should be fully independent.
Sighted people must understand that in the blind community especially, there's a *LOT* of blind people and even otherwise disabled people that *hate* all this “PC nonsense” PC is political correctness, but they're arguing against their own interests.
It happens in my own gay community too so instead of listening to blind people that hate other blind people, why not listen to a collective of blind people/other disabled people working to better local or digital environments.
I honestly didn't like the Against Access article when it came out, and I certainly don't like this quote being used to argue *against* access/accessibility instead of participating in an ongoing conversation about an optional filter.
Disagree with the filter all you want but *don't use another disabled person's shortsightedness to take away my access.* https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29496#issuecomment-4429977820 #Accessibility #AltText #A11y #Disability #Blind #Mastodon #Fediverse
The audio description one is complicated.
I believe it should be easy to turn on and off. The average no tech person should be able to turn it on and off in browser settings, or tv settings.
For the record - I am deafblind.
I lost a lot of my hearing before dropping to ten degrees of vision.
I struggle to comprehend speech.
So, being around people who are talking takes a day's energy, and few days to recover from.
Watching tv, there times I wish I could turn on description - in the captions.
Even with ten degrees of vision, I still comprehend reading better than spoken.
I tried audio description once, turned it on by accident. After five minutes of a show I knew, I had to turn off the tv, and stay in bed two days to get rid of the headache form all of the conflicting and over riding speech.
It is valuable for people. I just wish there was a way to pause the show speech while listening to (or reading) the audio description that more sighted people may, or may not, get from watching the show.
Definitely one of those tools that should be easy to adjust for those who need it.
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The audio description one is complicated.
I believe it should be easy to turn on and off. The average no tech person should be able to turn it on and off in browser settings, or tv settings.
For the record - I am deafblind.
I lost a lot of my hearing before dropping to ten degrees of vision.
I struggle to comprehend speech.
So, being around people who are talking takes a day's energy, and few days to recover from.
Watching tv, there times I wish I could turn on description - in the captions.
Even with ten degrees of vision, I still comprehend reading better than spoken.
I tried audio description once, turned it on by accident. After five minutes of a show I knew, I had to turn off the tv, and stay in bed two days to get rid of the headache form all of the conflicting and over riding speech.
It is valuable for people. I just wish there was a way to pause the show speech while listening to (or reading) the audio description that more sighted people may, or may not, get from watching the show.
Definitely one of those tools that should be easy to adjust for those who need it.
I'd frankly like to see more AD scripts being published, so people could read the AD script as they so choose. I did see one time, there were, like, AD captions, where the AD script plus the sound captions were like a different caption setting, so people could read it as it was happening, and those using Braille displays could read it. I want more AD scripts to be published. @UncoveredMyths
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