Based on some recent news, and an interaction I had.

[julia@eepy.moe]

@nelson@wetdry.world Flatpak W ngl

People that use other init systems always have a stick up their ass about non-native packaging anyways, it won't make a difference

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@julia most of the non-systemd linuxes are usable exactly because of flatpak, specially lightweight systems, such as postmarketOS. chimera linux itself pushing towards this idea of the custom OS that's made usable due to flatpak providing an amazing system-agnostic platform.

flatpak truly has no need to depend on systemd as of right now, they even promote the idea of installing flatpak on non-systemd systems in their website, because their containers shouldn't (and currently don't) have a dependency on anything other than the kernel and userland tools that talk to the kernel such as bubblewrap, why go this route now?

also, wow, you've never even took the time to talk to me, and now you come here just to shit on what i'm trying to convey? get out

[alexia@shrimp.starlightnet.work]

@julia @nelson prejudice much

[fiore@brain.worm.pink]

@julia@eepy.moe @nelson@wetdry.world flatpak is great , but also isnt this kind of a weird hill to alienate contributors on ?

also , the reason people like native packaging is exactly because of stuff like this .. if flatpak allowed more community input, im sure most people would feel the same way?

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@fiore @julia nah, some people ARE annoying about all of this, but that's just The Loud Minority(tm)

I still think that there's great worth in a truly universal package manager and flatpak was close to being perfect already, this was just a very weird move

[fiore@brain.worm.pink]

@nelson@wetdry.world @julia@eepy.moe yes i agree , thats how i feel too!! sorry i mightve phrased it wrong

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@fiore @julia nahh it was good, thank you for replying!

[julia@eepy.moe]

@fiore@brain.worm.pink @nelson@wetdry.world the point of flatpak is to decrease ecosystem fragmentation and provide stable runtimes for applications

supporting entire different multiple different OS stacks is contrary to that goal

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@julia @fiore what flatpak does at a fundamental level is setup containers and os-tree, there is no need and there has been no need to depend on systemd as long as the protocols are properly implemented, such as the freedesktop xdg-portal and wayland stuff

what flatpak does amazing is that it was able to support and depend on a specific subset or intersection of several systems at once, it doesn't matter how weird your system is because i'm pretty sure flatpak can be packaged for it, and thus, everything else can work for it

what this is doing is to make it much harder for weirder systems to ever get flatpak and thus lose a lot of support from those with intent of supporting linux as a platform

[fiore@brain.worm.pink]

@julia@eepy.moe @nelson@wetdry.world imean i guess i havent rlly looked into why flatpak would even need to depend on systemd so i dont rlly have anything interesting to reply here

but if the point is cross distro compatibility, deciding to cater only to Some Distros , with a technology that is to be completely honest kinda falling apart on itself (lets face it , systemd is not in its golden days anymore and hasnt been for a while, while alternatives have been getting a lot nicer to use), kinda makes no sense to me ? but idk , i rlly should look more into it i think .

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@julia @fiore what could actually cause some real issues when it comes to "supporting entire different multiple different OS stacks" could probably be drivers or some weird kernel level stuff, but for the most part, most of the userland essentially disappears for an application that's built for flatpak as a platform

[kirby@freerobuxextremist.com]

@julia @fiore @nelson >supporting entire different multiple different OS stacks is contrary to that goal

if that's the case, then why doesn't flatpak exclusively support immutable distros? bad card

[pj@donotsta.re]

> systemd is not in its golden days anymore and hasnt been for a while

since when and how

@fiore @julia @nelson

[fiore@brain.worm.pink]

@pj@donotsta.re @julia@eepy.moe @nelson@wetdry.world @claude review

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@pj @fiore @julia since they've began using AI to write code and file bug reports

[pj@donotsta.re]

Yeah I don't consider that anyhow related because it does not affect dev process

[kopper@not-brain.d.on-t.work]

@julia @fiore @nelson julia hi this is an L I thibj.

flatpak itself is the abstraction you as the software dev target to make your software work on the weird distros without needing to care about them in specific. this is counter to pretty much half of the entire selling point of flatpak (the other half is the sandboxing)

[nelson@wetdry.world]

@pj @fiore wym, ofc it does, there's AI code in systemd right now, and that's because redhat itself has been introducing it as a development tool for a while

don't cite me on it though, but it can be seen spreading across everything redhat-owned

[fiore@brain.worm.pink]

@pj@donotsta.re in any case , i am a happy systemd user on my servers . what im trying to say is that the push towards alternatives is there , and is something many people advocate for, and work actively towards . binding yourself to outdated technology is a bad idea imo..

[pj@donotsta.re]

> don't cite me on it though

ok so you're talking out of your ass then?

@nelson @fiore