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  3. I'm starting to feel the #Epstein Related Work cringe (to coin a term to go alongside #EpsteinClass).

I'm starting to feel the #Epstein Related Work cringe (to coin a term to go alongside #EpsteinClass).

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epsteinepsteinclassundonecs
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  • bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org

    I'm starting to feel the #Epstein Related Work cringe (to coin a term to go alongside #EpsteinClass). I freeze up when I see someone citing the scientific work of people we now know hung out with Epstein.

    I miss the 2019-2025 blissful ignorance when I could fool myself into thinking it was *just* Minksy who was, as the MIT report called him, “Epstein's best friend”. But it's so many of my once-heroes.

    I saw the best minds of my generation hang out on a sexual predator's island. 😩

    #UndoneCS

    tito@social.sciences.reT This user is from outside of this forum
    tito@social.sciences.reT This user is from outside of this forum
    tito@social.sciences.re
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    @bkuhn Are you talking about Abelson & Sussman? There's lots of stuff about the Epstein files I haven't followed.

    bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org

      I'm starting to feel the #Epstein Related Work cringe (to coin a term to go alongside #EpsteinClass). I freeze up when I see someone citing the scientific work of people we now know hung out with Epstein.

      I miss the 2019-2025 blissful ignorance when I could fool myself into thinking it was *just* Minksy who was, as the MIT report called him, “Epstein's best friend”. But it's so many of my once-heroes.

      I saw the best minds of my generation hang out on a sexual predator's island. 😩

      #UndoneCS

      bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
      bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
      bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      Note I don't blame people who need to cite prior work. & that's really the problem. The work is important, but hard to separate it from actions of the badly behaved person who did the work — particularly when they're your contemporaries.
      I have always had a similar reaction to, e.g, Thomas Jefferson as the primary author of the _Declaration of Independence_ while owning other humans and refusing to liberate them.
      But Jefferson was dead centuries before my birth. These folks were my colleagues.😬

      dalias@hachyderm.ioD 1 Reply Last reply
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      • tito@social.sciences.reT tito@social.sciences.re

        @bkuhn Are you talking about Abelson & Sussman? There's lots of stuff about the Epstein files I haven't followed.

        bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
        bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
        bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        Yes, I mean Sussman & Abelson. Below are links to some of the receipts.
        I'm 💔 & I🤮y: I spent years sitting next friends of sexual predators at #FSF Board of Directors mtgs.
        (Remember: #Epstein had already been convinced & served prison time in Florida at this point & all knew at #MIT.
        https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00709064.pdf#page=4
        https://web.archive.org/web/20101112051649/http://www.jeffreyepsteinscience.com/testimonials/#:~:text=MIT
        http://factfindingjan2020.mit.edu/files/MIT-report.pdf
        https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2010/EFTA02036765.pdf
        https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00754348.pdf
        https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2010/EFTA01811639.pdf
        https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2011/EFTA02417540.pdf
        https://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html
        Cc: @tito
        #UndoneCS

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        • bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org

          Note I don't blame people who need to cite prior work. & that's really the problem. The work is important, but hard to separate it from actions of the badly behaved person who did the work — particularly when they're your contemporaries.
          I have always had a similar reaction to, e.g, Thomas Jefferson as the primary author of the _Declaration of Independence_ while owning other humans and refusing to liberate them.
          But Jefferson was dead centuries before my birth. These folks were my colleagues.😬

          dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
          dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
          dalias@hachyderm.io
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          @bkuhn You can always cite it the way I saw someone cite the Unabomber.

          bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • dalias@hachyderm.ioD dalias@hachyderm.io

            @bkuhn You can always cite it the way I saw someone cite the Unabomber.

            bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
            bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
            bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            @dalias I'll bite. How did they write up the citation for the Unabomber?

            dalias@hachyderm.ioD 1 Reply Last reply
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            • bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org

              @dalias I'll bite. How did they write up the citation for the Unabomber?

              dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
              dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
              dalias@hachyderm.io
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              @bkuhn Footnote "better known for his other works".

              dalias@hachyderm.ioD bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB 2 Replies Last reply
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              • dalias@hachyderm.ioD dalias@hachyderm.io

                @bkuhn Footnote "better known for his other works".

                dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                dalias@hachyderm.io
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                @bkuhn I forget where I saw it, probably back on , but someone who actually needed to cite a paper of his shared a screenshot of the actual page and footnote.

                creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC 1 Reply Last reply
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                • dalias@hachyderm.ioD dalias@hachyderm.io

                  @bkuhn I forget where I saw it, probably back on , but someone who actually needed to cite a paper of his shared a screenshot of the actual page and footnote.

                  creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC This user is from outside of this forum
                  creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC This user is from outside of this forum
                  creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.se
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9
                  @dalias @bkuhn I don't have the original paper to hand, but I believe this is a screenshot of it:
                  Link Preview Image
                  creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • dalias@hachyderm.ioD dalias@hachyderm.io

                    @bkuhn Footnote "better known for his other works".

                    bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                    bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                    bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    @dalias Speaking of the Unabomber, he was definitely like a stopped calendar that is right every ≈28 years.

                    One of the phrases that his brother I identified with him is that the Unabomber used was: “can't eat your cake then have it too”, which admittedly actually makes sense as an aphorism while the canonical version makes no sense.

                    I started using the Unabomber version, & then just worked real hard to remove the aphorism from my speech altogether.
                    Cc: @creideiki

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                    • creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.se
                      @dalias @bkuhn I don't have the original paper to hand, but I believe this is a screenshot of it:
                      Link Preview Image
                      creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC This user is from outside of this forum
                      creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC This user is from outside of this forum
                      creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.se
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11
                      @dalias @bkuhn ... which, according to https://www.thetedkarchive.com/library/ted-kaczynski-the-mathematical-work-of-ted-kaczynski, comes from "Digit Reversal Without Apology", by Lara Pudwell, of Rutgers University: https://faculty.valpo.edu/lpudwell/papers/mm005281.pdf
                      bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.se
                        @dalias @bkuhn ... which, according to https://www.thetedkarchive.com/library/ted-kaczynski-the-mathematical-work-of-ted-kaczynski, comes from "Digit Reversal Without Apology", by Lara Pudwell, of Rutgers University: https://faculty.valpo.edu/lpudwell/papers/mm005281.pdf
                        bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                        bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                        bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        😲 @creideiki you have an ‘ö’ in your #Fediverse / #Mastodon handle.

                        I had no idea Unicode was supported for handles! It makes sense #ActivityPub didn't have to follow RFC 2822 `addr-spec` syntax, but I guess I'm so old I assumed it did.

                        Darn,
                        I coulda been @bkühn@copyleft.org 🤦. Too late now that I've already transitioned once here from @bkuhn@floss.social

                        creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org

                          😲 @creideiki you have an ‘ö’ in your #Fediverse / #Mastodon handle.

                          I had no idea Unicode was supported for handles! It makes sense #ActivityPub didn't have to follow RFC 2822 `addr-spec` syntax, but I guess I'm so old I assumed it did.

                          Darn,
                          I coulda been @bkühn@copyleft.org 🤦. Too late now that I've already transitioned once here from @bkuhn@floss.social

                          creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC This user is from outside of this forum
                          creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC This user is from outside of this forum
                          creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.se
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13
                          @bkuhn The domain part is just a DNS domain, and in the right ccTLD (like .se) "ö" is a perfectly valid character. I haven't actually tried to mess with the username part.

                          But there are still ActivityPub implementations that reject the shiny new (well, 2003) IDN world and show the Punycode "xn--" variant instead. Fewer now, since I started using this server and sending bug reports 🙂
                          bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.seC creideiki@akkoma.xn--pikabl-0xa.se
                            @bkuhn The domain part is just a DNS domain, and in the right ccTLD (like .se) "ö" is a perfectly valid character. I haven't actually tried to mess with the username part.

                            But there are still ActivityPub implementations that reject the shiny new (well, 2003) IDN world and show the Punycode "xn--" variant instead. Fewer now, since I started using this server and sending bug reports 🙂
                            bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                            bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                            bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            @creideiki Ok, TIL that TLDs could have Unicode? I thought all of DNS had to be only ASCII 0x21 - 0x3A (plus 0x25).

                            I'm starting to feel like everything I know about the Internet is wrong.

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