CIRCLE WITH A DOT

@boris what about "Takedowns on accounts and records apply on the API level regardless of the labeler headers."?

Paul Frazee (@pfrazee.com)

Okay I got some answers. Takedowns on accounts apply on the PDS level. Takedowns on accounts and records apply on the API level regardless of the labeler headers. I’ll explain why and share some thoughts in next posts

Bluesky Social (bsky.app)

It really sounds like user data/content is being made inaccessible at the source, but I'm out of my depth here.

@mcc ok, gotcha

@mcc I agree with you and I'm working on migrating. I don't see how this relates to my post though. I'm trying to compare the downsides of ATProto you raised with how ActivityPub would perform.

@boris @mcc PDS takedowns are happening though: https://bsky.app/profile/pfrazee.com/post/3lyt3yumpos2q

This is stronger than a label, isn't it?

Maybe not the same technically as content being removed from a PDS, but if the whole PDS is taken down that's functionally equivalent.

@mcc oops I was wrong, they actually do PDS takedowns although they're working on it. This brings us (currently) back in the worst case scenario, but with a path out in the future hopefully. At Bluesky's whim I guess? Ouch.

josh 🐦 (@josh.uno)

yeah so if you get suspended when all those takedown errors when you try to access the account, you can’t recover your account to switch PDSes right now?

Bluesky Social (bsky.app)

@mcc great thread. I've been thinking about this, and about the ActivityPub alternative. Which to me looks like either

- Best case: "Gertrude" can speak freely on a friendly instance (which she used originally) and unfriendly instances/users can block her. But she keeps posting to her audience

- Worst case: "Gertrude" is banned by her instance, and now does not even have the option to continue speaking to her followers, she has to start a new account/identity from scratch, try and integrate into the community again, prove she's not an impostor, etc

With ATProto you don't get that best case scenario. But you don't get that worst case scenario either.

Btw, I saw pfrazee say they don't do PDS deletions except for illegal content (since they have to by law in that case). But on that note, they could even go further if they wanted (I think?) and block PDS migrations at which point we are back in the worst case scenario.

The comparisons and tradeoffs here are really complex! Just starting to wrap my head around it.