@fox oh my bad, that's an arch thing. I installed it a few weeks ago and it did not include X11. Theoretically if I were a normal arch user and I read the news, I'd have known you need to install that yourself on purpose, but I'm not a normal arch user and I don't read the news (I switched to KDE on Arch on a whim some time after the change. if I'm not experimenting with some other distro, I'm usually using Mint with XFCE)
H