Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
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@lexinova @FifiSch @grote I expect that to be helpful, but it's too limited. They're not going to expand out too much because the Graphene author is very very adamant that things must be just so (especially hardware features.)
I also worry they'll pull a OnePlus. They became too commercial and stopped being the open thing they were pretending to be once all the money came in.
What we truly need is a truly open initiative of some sort. But smartphones and tablets have a very particular ecosystem that would be incredibly hard to ever open up at this point. Proprietary, locked down components locked behind NDAs are the norm for even the cheapest devices. It didn't have to be that way, but here we are now.
@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote and people in store will never see their post nor comunicate with them, so if preinstall it's a non issue.
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Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote waiting 1 day is insane!
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@tezoatlipoca @grote at that point i'm already surpsised they did not make sideloading a paid feature ...
@lexinova @grote or.. like make a fucking sandbox an official part of the platform, like plugins are sandboxed in the browser. Sideload all the garbage apps you like in sandbox mode, but they get locked the F down and all I/O or perms have to be re-vetted by the user periodically and/or leaves an transaction trail that can be rolled back or whatever.
I mean isn't snap really just a sandboxed-in-user-space-with-additional-restrictions deployment platform?
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If the installation fails for some reason, and leaves your phone in an unbootable state, is there some way to recover it?
You can always recover a PC with a bricked operating system by booting from USB. Boot from USB is implemented in ROM, so no matter how horribly wrong things go, there's always a fail-safe.
I was under the impression that the equivalent to that ROM on phones is in writable storage and can be bricked along with the rest of the OS.
@argv_minus_one @FifiSch @grote
If the installation fails for some reason, and leaves your phone in an unbootable state, is there some way to recover it?
Yes. Just reflash the image. In a worst case just flash the stock OS back. But it's pretty hard to mess up to that extent when you're copying and pasting.
Like you'd have to yank the cable out while it's transferring or something.
EDIT: Oh, as a side note, many do dual partitions now. If you flash it flashes to the other. So you can still just simply boot the first which remains untouched.
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@lexinova @grote or.. like make a fucking sandbox an official part of the platform, like plugins are sandboxed in the browser. Sideload all the garbage apps you like in sandbox mode, but they get locked the F down and all I/O or perms have to be re-vetted by the user periodically and/or leaves an transaction trail that can be rolled back or whatever.
I mean isn't snap really just a sandboxed-in-user-space-with-additional-restrictions deployment platform?
@tezoatlipoca @grote but that don't allow them to maintain monopoly so they won't care, google cannot care less about your security.
their end goal is monopoly in android.
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@grote what the fuck. none of this is at all acceptable
let people install whatever apps they want, without any fearmongering
it's supposed to be their device
@lumi @grote wait, this sounds really good though. Blocks in place for bad actors, super impossible to do by accident, but ultimately still full freedom to install anything you want, with a convenient way to revert to a more restricted install mode after a week passes.
This is _inconvenient_ for sure, but it seems designed to be asymmetrically more inconvenient for threat actors than for legit users. And we need serious meaningful friction to thwart scammers, domestic abusers, and them
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They even have a video up where they try to make this all sound nice and positive:
@grote@chaos.social maybe bro should build an advanced flow for keeping the microphone a consistent distance from his mouth
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@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote and people in store will never see their post nor comunicate with them, so if preinstall it's a non issue.
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Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote It feels reasonable to me. I haven't realized the scale of the scamming problem they are dealing with. Perhaps we, as power users, underestimate this problem but I bet Google has some good amount of data on that.
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@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote you don't need to "install" graphene os on the motorola partner.
the motorola graphene edition will already have graphene in it when buying it.
so people who want installing app but don't want to flash their device will naturally buy motorola
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Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote Well that's stupid
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@grote what the fuck. none of this is at all acceptable
let people install whatever apps they want, without any fearmongering
it's supposed to be their device -
Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote They should be jailed together with the scammers for doing this...
Meanwhile malware still being hawked on the play store...
Linux phones growing to be an ever more urgent project.
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@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote you don't need to "install" graphene os on the motorola partner.
the motorola graphene edition will already have graphene in it when buying it.
so people who want installing app but don't want to flash their device will naturally buy motorola
@lexinova @FifiSch @grote Yeah, and they very possibly won't have any other option. Like I said, the dev is pretty... stubborn about things...
But it won't be in stores most likely. You'll have to buy them online. Which means people will have to know of them first. And you know service providers aren't going to go out of their way to tell anyone.
And, like I said, it's going to be a very very limited set of options and probably quite costly. (The dev seems to have no problem expecting us to pay a lot.) That's if going commercial doesn't further ruin it all...
Not saying it's a bad thing, just that we can't count on this to open things up.
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If the installation fails for some reason, and leaves your phone in an unbootable state, is there some way to recover it?
You can always recover a PC with a bricked operating system by booting from USB. Boot from USB is implemented in ROM, so no matter how horribly wrong things go, there's always a fail-safe.
I was under the impression that the equivalent to that ROM on phones is in writable storage and can be bricked along with the rest of the OS.
Apparently this is how you unlock the boot loader on a phone in order to install a different OS:
How to unlock the bootloader of an Android Phone
Unlocking the Bootloader allows you to install custom firmware on your Android phone and gives you full access privileges to make modifications to...
iFixit (www.ifixit.com)
And I thought having to turn off UEFI Secure Boot was offensive. Yikes! That's an awful lot of hoops to jump through, can't be done without first agreeing to the stock OS terms and conditions (my inner Stallman is very upset with that), and it requires a whole separate computer to do it with!
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@FifiSch @grote I don't really understand that. The instructions are so simple and detailed and the "new OS" is basically exactly the same thing right down to having the same basic startup configuration and etc. The only difference is the Google connections are optional and one can decide for themselves how far they want to go.
It's pretty much just tapping a few things, then copying and pasting two lines or so. Once it's booted you wouldn't tell it apart from stock other than its cleanliness. It's easier than installing Linux on a PC and that's actually a lot easier and less scary than people have been convinced.
I bet if people didn't let Google, Apple, and etc convince them that they are so scared of installing third party options we never would have reached this point.
@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote Consider the failure state. If a user fails to set up installing outside programs, they can still use their phone and make calls. If a user fails to install a new OS, they have no phone until they succeed.
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@lexinova @FifiSch @grote Yeah, and they very possibly won't have any other option. Like I said, the dev is pretty... stubborn about things...
But it won't be in stores most likely. You'll have to buy them online. Which means people will have to know of them first. And you know service providers aren't going to go out of their way to tell anyone.
And, like I said, it's going to be a very very limited set of options and probably quite costly. (The dev seems to have no problem expecting us to pay a lot.) That's if going commercial doesn't further ruin it all...
Not saying it's a bad thing, just that we can't count on this to open things up.
@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote sadly we don't have any other credible alternative.
bank and country already have great difficulty accepting the very hardened graphene os.
so don't expect linux phone or lineage to be allowed anytime soon
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@grote It feels reasonable to me. I haven't realized the scale of the scamming problem they are dealing with. Perhaps we, as power users, underestimate this problem but I bet Google has some good amount of data on that.
