Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
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If we DO go through all this bullshit to sideload or get F-droid installed... so now our phone is in developer mode. Are there going to be any authorized Google store apps that detect developer mode and go "nuh-uh"? And if that's the case, and I disable developer mode (presumeably borking our F-droid/sideload apps?), will I have to wait 24 hrs to RE-enable dev mode?
@tezoatlipoca @grote at that point i'm already surpsised they did not make sideloading a paid feature ...
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You will own nothing....
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@grote one year later we've updated our policies
* wait extra day
* enable accelerometer
* wank the phone for 10 minutes
* wait another day -
Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote Feels like the first step in the #enshittificaton of #android , harshly said...
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@FifiSch @grote I don't really understand that. The instructions are so simple and detailed and the "new OS" is basically exactly the same thing right down to having the same basic startup configuration and etc. The only difference is the Google connections are optional and one can decide for themselves how far they want to go.
It's pretty much just tapping a few things, then copying and pasting two lines or so. Once it's booted you wouldn't tell it apart from stock other than its cleanliness. It's easier than installing Linux on a PC and that's actually a lot easier and less scary than people have been convinced.
I bet if people didn't let Google, Apple, and etc convince them that they are so scared of installing third party options we never would have reached this point.
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@FifiSch @nazokiyoubinbou @grote graphene might have a chance with their partnership with motorola, run from start, and people won't even know about thim simply no google by default in it.
@lexinova @FifiSch @grote I expect that to be helpful, but it's too limited. They're not going to expand out too much because the Graphene author is very very adamant that things must be just so (especially hardware features.)
I also worry they'll pull a OnePlus. They became too commercial and stopped being the open thing they were pretending to be once all the money came in.
What we truly need is a truly open initiative of some sort. But smartphones and tablets have a very particular ecosystem that would be incredibly hard to ever open up at this point. Proprietary, locked down components locked behind NDAs are the norm for even the cheapest devices. It didn't have to be that way, but here we are now.
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@FifiSch @grote I don't really understand that. The instructions are so simple and detailed and the "new OS" is basically exactly the same thing right down to having the same basic startup configuration and etc. The only difference is the Google connections are optional and one can decide for themselves how far they want to go.
It's pretty much just tapping a few things, then copying and pasting two lines or so. Once it's booted you wouldn't tell it apart from stock other than its cleanliness. It's easier than installing Linux on a PC and that's actually a lot easier and less scary than people have been convinced.
I bet if people didn't let Google, Apple, and etc convince them that they are so scared of installing third party options we never would have reached this point.
If the installation fails for some reason, and leaves your phone in an unbootable state, is there some way to recover it?
You can always recover a PC with a bricked operating system by booting from USB. Boot from USB is implemented in ROM, so no matter how horribly wrong things go, there's always a fail-safe.
I was under the impression that the equivalent to that ROM on phones is in writable storage and can be bricked along with the rest of the OS.
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@lexinova @FifiSch @grote I expect that to be helpful, but it's too limited. They're not going to expand out too much because the Graphene author is very very adamant that things must be just so (especially hardware features.)
I also worry they'll pull a OnePlus. They became too commercial and stopped being the open thing they were pretending to be once all the money came in.
What we truly need is a truly open initiative of some sort. But smartphones and tablets have a very particular ecosystem that would be incredibly hard to ever open up at this point. Proprietary, locked down components locked behind NDAs are the norm for even the cheapest devices. It didn't have to be that way, but here we are now.
@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote and people in store will never see their post nor comunicate with them, so if preinstall it's a non issue.
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Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote waiting 1 day is insane!
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@tezoatlipoca @grote at that point i'm already surpsised they did not make sideloading a paid feature ...
@lexinova @grote or.. like make a fucking sandbox an official part of the platform, like plugins are sandboxed in the browser. Sideload all the garbage apps you like in sandbox mode, but they get locked the F down and all I/O or perms have to be re-vetted by the user periodically and/or leaves an transaction trail that can be rolled back or whatever.
I mean isn't snap really just a sandboxed-in-user-space-with-additional-restrictions deployment platform?
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If the installation fails for some reason, and leaves your phone in an unbootable state, is there some way to recover it?
You can always recover a PC with a bricked operating system by booting from USB. Boot from USB is implemented in ROM, so no matter how horribly wrong things go, there's always a fail-safe.
I was under the impression that the equivalent to that ROM on phones is in writable storage and can be bricked along with the rest of the OS.
@argv_minus_one @FifiSch @grote
If the installation fails for some reason, and leaves your phone in an unbootable state, is there some way to recover it?
Yes. Just reflash the image. In a worst case just flash the stock OS back. But it's pretty hard to mess up to that extent when you're copying and pasting.
Like you'd have to yank the cable out while it's transferring or something.
EDIT: Oh, as a side note, many do dual partitions now. If you flash it flashes to the other. So you can still just simply boot the first which remains untouched.
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@lexinova @grote or.. like make a fucking sandbox an official part of the platform, like plugins are sandboxed in the browser. Sideload all the garbage apps you like in sandbox mode, but they get locked the F down and all I/O or perms have to be re-vetted by the user periodically and/or leaves an transaction trail that can be rolled back or whatever.
I mean isn't snap really just a sandboxed-in-user-space-with-additional-restrictions deployment platform?
@tezoatlipoca @grote but that don't allow them to maintain monopoly so they won't care, google cannot care less about your security.
their end goal is monopoly in android.
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@grote what the fuck. none of this is at all acceptable
let people install whatever apps they want, without any fearmongering
it's supposed to be their device
@lumi @grote wait, this sounds really good though. Blocks in place for bad actors, super impossible to do by accident, but ultimately still full freedom to install anything you want, with a convenient way to revert to a more restricted install mode after a week passes.
This is _inconvenient_ for sure, but it seems designed to be asymmetrically more inconvenient for threat actors than for legit users. And we need serious meaningful friction to thwart scammers, domestic abusers, and them
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They even have a video up where they try to make this all sound nice and positive:
@grote@chaos.social maybe bro should build an advanced flow for keeping the microphone a consistent distance from his mouth
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@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote and people in store will never see their post nor comunicate with them, so if preinstall it's a non issue.
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Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:
* enable developer options
* confirm prompt that you are not tricked
* restart phone and re-authenticate
* wait one day doing nothing
* confirm with biometrics or device PIN that you know what you are doing
* enjoy the last the few apps that still have developers that are motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this@grote It feels reasonable to me. I haven't realized the scale of the scamming problem they are dealing with. Perhaps we, as power users, underestimate this problem but I bet Google has some good amount of data on that.
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@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote you don't need to "install" graphene os on the motorola partner.
the motorola graphene edition will already have graphene in it when buying it.
so people who want installing app but don't want to flash their device will naturally buy motorola
