As someone whose job description has expanded to include: "Prepare offers for specialized IT systems including server hardware", I have this to say:
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Ingo Heinscher That is not what the developers I've worked with are saying. Lines of code can be produced faster than ever, but software engineering isn't about the number of lines of code produced, but about what those lines do.
@kichae I see no contradiction to what I wrote. Coding agents are so far a massive productivity increase, not more, not less. But that's not a bubble. That's progress.
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@juergen_hubert The developer isn't really replaced by the LLMs yet. The programmer absolutely is.
And how many IT companies still employ "programmers" as opposed to software developers?
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And how many IT companies still employ "programmers" as opposed to software developers?
@juergen_hubert I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you believe coding agents are a productivity leap, or do you not?
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@juergen_hubert I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you believe coding agents are a productivity leap, or do you not?
They might be a productivity leap for small, fairly standardized, self-contained projects, but their usefulness decreased geometrically with project complexity.
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They might be a productivity leap for small, fairly standardized, self-contained projects, but their usefulness decreased geometrically with project complexity.
@juergen_hubert Now you are grasping for straws.
This technology is phenomenal and very useful. Now, not every use is maybe a wise allocation of resources. The talk of a "bubble" might be about some of the companies, but the AI technology itself is clearly extremely useful even in its present, rather early stage. -
@juergen_hubert Now you are grasping for straws.
This technology is phenomenal and very useful. Now, not every use is maybe a wise allocation of resources. The talk of a "bubble" might be about some of the companies, but the AI technology itself is clearly extremely useful even in its present, rather early stage.@juergen_hubert That said: Hardware prices will go down again as scientists figure out more efficient ways to implement AI, and hardware better suited to the tasks becomes widely available.
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@juergen_hubert Now you are grasping for straws.
This technology is phenomenal and very useful. Now, not every use is maybe a wise allocation of resources. The talk of a "bubble" might be about some of the companies, but the AI technology itself is clearly extremely useful even in its present, rather early stage.Are there any scientific papers that quantify how useful they are in actual software development practice?
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Are there any scientific papers that quantify how useful they are in actual software development practice?
@juergen_hubert Claude Code is just one year old, I doubt anyone decided to write papers about it. But you hear from everywhere how they are no longer coding themselves, but using LLM's for coding.
So do I.
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@juergen_hubert Claude Code is just one year old, I doubt anyone decided to write papers about it. But you hear from everywhere how they are no longer coding themselves, but using LLM's for coding.
So do I.
So no one has yet any experience whether it is viable for large, complex, and long-term software projects, either.
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So no one has yet any experience whether it is viable for large, complex, and long-term software projects, either.
@juergen_hubert I suggest, again, you try it yourself to see what people mean when they say coding by humans doesn't happen any more. Anthropic's Opus 4.6, which just came out this week, will humble anyone.
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@juergen_hubert I suggest, again, you try it yourself to see what people mean when they say coding by humans doesn't happen any more. Anthropic's Opus 4.6, which just came out this week, will humble anyone.
I am not a software developer working on complex software products which have been developed over the course of decades. When _they_ tell me that this is genuinely useful after at least one year of usage, _then_ I will listen.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", and all that.
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I am not a software developer working on complex software products which have been developed over the course of decades. When _they_ tell me that this is genuinely useful after at least one year of usage, _then_ I will listen.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", and all that.
@juergen_hubert You choose to stay blind.
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@juergen_hubert You choose to stay blind.
Or I choose not to get blinded by the hype. We shall see.
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Or I choose not to get blinded by the hype. We shall see.
@juergen_hubert Hypes usually die once people see the hyped thing. You refuse to see the hyped thing.
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Or I choose not to get blinded by the hype. We shall see.
@juergen_hubert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pey9u_ANXZM gives a good overview how people develop software these days.
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@juergen_hubert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pey9u_ANXZM gives a good overview how people develop software these days.
... according to a representative of an AI company? 🧐
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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... according to a representative of an AI company? 🧐
@juergen_hubert It's an hour of youtube, and you can stop any time. But not even trying to understand what's happening, how does that benefit you?
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@juergen_hubert It's an hour of youtube, and you can stop any time. But not even trying to understand what's happening, how does that benefit you?
Okay, I have several points to make here:
- I am _extremely_ distrustful of videos - especially YouTube videos - as a reliable source of information. I have come across too many social media commentators who have tried to tell me: "Watch this video, it will totally debunk global warming!" And they never did. Give me a properly sourced article any day.
- I also can't help noticing that the AI industry has attracted some of the biggest scam artists in world history (measured by total currency). Their entire business model is based on keeping the hype going. Thus, I am not going to take the word of anyone who is a representative of that industry.
- While I am not a software developer myself, I do work for a software development company. Some of the software developers _are_ experimenting with AI, but I do not get the impression that this has revolutionarized their development cycles yet. When it does, _then_ I will start taking this seriously.
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Okay, I have several points to make here:
- I am _extremely_ distrustful of videos - especially YouTube videos - as a reliable source of information. I have come across too many social media commentators who have tried to tell me: "Watch this video, it will totally debunk global warming!" And they never did. Give me a properly sourced article any day.
- I also can't help noticing that the AI industry has attracted some of the biggest scam artists in world history (measured by total currency). Their entire business model is based on keeping the hype going. Thus, I am not going to take the word of anyone who is a representative of that industry.
- While I am not a software developer myself, I do work for a software development company. Some of the software developers _are_ experimenting with AI, but I do not get the impression that this has revolutionarized their development cycles yet. When it does, _then_ I will start taking this seriously.
@juergen_hubert If you don't trust Videos, try Claude Code with Opus 4.6 yourself. But that will cost you 20 Euros or so.
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@juergen_hubert If you don't trust Videos, try Claude Code with Opus 4.6 yourself. But that will cost you 20 Euros or so.
I am not a software developer, and am in no position to evaluate such tools - especially over the course of several years, which would be necessary for this.
