Hot on the heels of C&Ding the agent that logs into Canvas and does work for students, Instructure releases an agent to do teachers' work for them.
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@da_667 And it's about to get so much worse. The AI stuff is, as I am hearing, the final straw for many career educators.
@mttaggart oh yeah, last year my wife was told, point blank, numerous times that "AI will eventually replace teachers in the classroom." Tell them to look at how well that goes literally anywhere they've performed mass layoffs, and let the robots take over." They're usually scrambling to hire everyone back because it turns out a glorified Markov chain can't replace someone with the proper domain knowledge.
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@mttaggart oh yeah, last year my wife was told, point blank, numerous times that "AI will eventually replace teachers in the classroom." Tell them to look at how well that goes literally anywhere they've performed mass layoffs, and let the robots take over." They're usually scrambling to hire everyone back because it turns out a glorified Markov chain can't replace someone with the proper domain knowledge.
@da_667 Gonna be wild when a giant group of people who are ideologically opposite from the normal group of homeschoolers start doing so—because they want their kids to actually learn.
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@mttaggart faculty never gets shit. its always admin who gets whatever slim pickings it is that the government provides. Meanwhile, teachers with years of experience are barely topping 50k and useless as fuck superintendents are making over 250k. Wonder why we have a teacher shortage.
@da_667 @mttaggart Salaries definitely vary by location. These are Elementary teacher salaries in public WA State schools.
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@da_667 @mttaggart Salaries definitely vary by location. These are Elementary teacher salaries in public WA State schools.
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You must understand that American education "reform" has been captured by capital for, well, ever—but specifically since the 1980s. There marked the era of MBAs thinking they knew better than career educators how to fix schools. And it's gone so well since. This is the same broken thinking that continues to favor wealthy families and punish poor ones, giving nobody a worthy education.
@mttaggart MBAs believe they know how to do anything and everything better than anyone else.
MBA : Masters in Bloviation and Arrogance.
It hasn't been about Business for decades.
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@mttaggart @da_667 Agreed. Just pointing out that much like with cops, there are options for teachers to make money elsewhere without a major career change. It certainly wasn't a counter to da's point as that was completely valid.
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@da_667 @mttaggart Salaries definitely vary by location. These are Elementary teacher salaries in public WA State schools.
@cR0w @mttaggart I can tell you that salaries here in michigan are fucking GARBAGE. and that my wife with 10 years experience was told to give up her steps when she transferred into the current district she is in.
Imagine as a tech worker, you have 10+ years of experience, and you're searching for a senior role. You expect to get paid more or better than your current salary, but they tell you flat out that your experience isn't worth shit, to give up on making more money, and start over from the bottom of the totem pole.
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@cR0w @mttaggart I can tell you that salaries here in michigan are fucking GARBAGE. and that my wife with 10 years experience was told to give up her steps when she transferred into the current district she is in.
Imagine as a tech worker, you have 10+ years of experience, and you're searching for a senior role. You expect to get paid more or better than your current salary, but they tell you flat out that your experience isn't worth shit, to give up on making more money, and start over from the bottom of the totem pole.
@da_667 @mttaggart That's actually kind of how it was for me going from academia back to industry. It's ridiculous.
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@cR0w @mttaggart I can tell you that salaries here in michigan are fucking GARBAGE. and that my wife with 10 years experience was told to give up her steps when she transferred into the current district she is in.
Imagine as a tech worker, you have 10+ years of experience, and you're searching for a senior role. You expect to get paid more or better than your current salary, but they tell you flat out that your experience isn't worth shit, to give up on making more money, and start over from the bottom of the totem pole.
@cR0w @mttaggart the unions don't do shit, the districts don't give a shit. Its basically take it or leave it.
and while I'm almost certain that my wife could go literally anywhere else, make more money, take less of her work home with her, and spend less unpaid hours preparing shit for a classroom, she keeps doing what she does because she legitimately cares about the children.
"Its never the kids, its always the adults."
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@cR0w @mttaggart the unions don't do shit, the districts don't give a shit. Its basically take it or leave it.
and while I'm almost certain that my wife could go literally anywhere else, make more money, take less of her work home with her, and spend less unpaid hours preparing shit for a classroom, she keeps doing what she does because she legitimately cares about the children.
"Its never the kids, its always the adults."
@cR0w @mttaggart not quite as nice as your table, but here is some info.
Cost of living in southeast michigan is also starting to go a bit crazy.
When we bought our house in 2017, it was 240k. Allegedly its now worth somewhere north of 350k. Salaries haven't really changed that much
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@cR0w @mttaggart the unions don't do shit, the districts don't give a shit. Its basically take it or leave it.
and while I'm almost certain that my wife could go literally anywhere else, make more money, take less of her work home with her, and spend less unpaid hours preparing shit for a classroom, she keeps doing what she does because she legitimately cares about the children.
"Its never the kids, its always the adults."
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@cR0w @mttaggart not quite as nice as your table, but here is some info.
Cost of living in southeast michigan is also starting to go a bit crazy.
When we bought our house in 2017, it was 240k. Allegedly its now worth somewhere north of 350k. Salaries haven't really changed that much
@cR0w @mttaggart also just wanna give a huge shoutout mid-thread to everyone who donated towards supplying my wife's classroom this year.
Those kids to access to a bunch of REALLY cool new books, toys, learning resources, and more importantly food in order to keep them nourished and ready to continue learning throughout the year.
Its a fucked up world we live in that we have to ask for donations, but I'm grateful for this community that for the past two years have seen fit to grace up with their sense of empathy and giving.
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@mttaggart @da_667 @cR0w healthcare is the same, it basically runs on unpaid overtime of doctors and nurses who can’t bear to go home
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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You must understand that American education "reform" has been captured by capital for, well, ever—but specifically since the 1980s. There marked the era of MBAs thinking they knew better than career educators how to fix schools. And it's gone so well since. This is the same broken thinking that continues to favor wealthy families and punish poor ones, giving nobody a worthy education.
@mttaggart Ah yes. Education not as an experience, but a "product," and schools run as if they are businesses.
Just pure fkn brilliance. Eyes on the bottom line as we all sink to the bottom.
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@da_667 Gonna be wild when a giant group of people who are ideologically opposite from the normal group of homeschoolers start doing so—because they want their kids to actually learn.
@mttaggart @da_667 As someone on the front lines (and who has it WAY better than K-12):
a) AI has basically made it impossible for us to use the majority of our traditional forms of assessment, particularly in freshman and sophomore courses. As a result, most of us are moving back to more high stakes testing.
b) I haven't personally seen "AI will replace teachers" in higher ed yet. We are, however, increasingly told that AI is going to solve our problems by people that have no idea how AI works or what our problems actually are since they haven't spent much time in the classroom in years.
The problem is that higher education Boards of Trustees are usually made up of the same people who either shilling for the AI hype train or are being inundated with AI hype spam 24/7.
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@mttaggart @da_667 As someone on the front lines (and who has it WAY better than K-12):
a) AI has basically made it impossible for us to use the majority of our traditional forms of assessment, particularly in freshman and sophomore courses. As a result, most of us are moving back to more high stakes testing.
b) I haven't personally seen "AI will replace teachers" in higher ed yet. We are, however, increasingly told that AI is going to solve our problems by people that have no idea how AI works or what our problems actually are since they haven't spent much time in the classroom in years.
The problem is that higher education Boards of Trustees are usually made up of the same people who either shilling for the AI hype train or are being inundated with AI hype spam 24/7.
@nerdpr0f @mttaggart that's more or less the experience in K-12 as well. Buncha people who have no idea what in the hell they're talking about assuring teachers that AI is the future.
So far, my wife has gotten away with no using it in the classroom at all, but I can't imagine its been that easy in other places.
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@da_667 @mttaggart That's actually kind of how it was for me going from academia back to industry. It's ridiculous.
@cR0w @da_667 @mttaggart Likewise, when I was looking at making the hop. I was repeatedly told (and am still somewhat frequently told) that my experience in tech through teaching is more or less useless. Those folks are perfectly happy hiring my students, though.
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M mttaggart@infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@nerdpr0f @mttaggart that's more or less the experience in K-12 as well. Buncha people who have no idea what in the hell they're talking about assuring teachers that AI is the future.
So far, my wife has gotten away with no using it in the classroom at all, but I can't imagine its been that easy in other places.
I have one assignment in one class where I require the use. Basically, pick an LLM and use it to generate a small webapp without including anything about security in your prompt. Then, evaluate the security of the web app generated and see what needs to be done to fix the problems it inevitably includes.
Beyond that, I've kind of given up the fight a bit. In many of the other assignments - like most of the assignments in my reverse engineering class - it's really not that helpful. For the ones where it is, I require them to cite their chats while making it clear that "AI told me" isn't a defense for getting something wrong and that copying an answer wholesale isn't acceptable.
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@cR0w @da_667 @mttaggart Likewise, when I was looking at making the hop. I was repeatedly told (and am still somewhat frequently told) that my experience in tech through teaching is more or less useless. Those folks are perfectly happy hiring my students, though.
@nerdpr0f @da_667 @mttaggart I heard that a lot too but I was fortunate enough to have a good relationship with our advisory board, which was mostly former students of mine, and I had successful students who liked my classes enough to help get me interviews where they were working. That didn't land me the job I'm in now but it was really helpful for the job search process in general.
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@cR0w @mttaggart I can tell you that salaries here in michigan are fucking GARBAGE. and that my wife with 10 years experience was told to give up her steps when she transferred into the current district she is in.
Imagine as a tech worker, you have 10+ years of experience, and you're searching for a senior role. You expect to get paid more or better than your current salary, but they tell you flat out that your experience isn't worth shit, to give up on making more money, and start over from the bottom of the totem pole.
> Imagine as a tech worker, you have 10+ years of experience, and you're searching for a senior role. You expect to get paid more or better than your current salary, but they tell you flat out that your experience isn't worth shit, to give up on making more money, and start over from the bottom of the totem pole.
That's kinda what it's like right now. Twenty five years in and I'm being told that they'll take me on as an intern but that's it.
