PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.

[naahrathescaled@furry.engineer]

@kaosk @aral Please report on how it goes

[mpsi@toot.lv]

@aral @element What we need is effective democratic control over all public institutions and social spaces, not abolishing police or other standard state institutions. And for that effective democratic control, we need open standards and open protocols, among other things. (I would even say they are indispensable, although the public discourse doesn't seem to understand that yet).

[qgustavor@urusai.social]

@LukefromDC @aral I am still waiting for Mastodon to have E2EE support.

[aral@mastodon.ar.al]

@mpsi @element Yes, abolish the police. I don’t see a problem with that. We don’t need a slave patrol derived institution that protects the interests of the uber rich. Imagine other possibilities, it’s not either/or.

[skynebula@mastodon.social]

@kravietz @aral Dude, please check your sources before using Aurore Bergé as an example... This woman is a well known TERF, islamophobe and zionist.

[katzenberger@tldr.nettime.org]

@Tamtam

In addition? I'd pick a fallback solution that works on a different type of infrastructure. @delta for instance.

@zzt @aral

[karlheinzhaslip@climatejustice.social]

@aral @ahltorp @element They are funny.
- We don’t sell to organisations who are committing human rights abuses
then proceed to say they sell to:
- US Department of Defense, German Bundeswehr, UK Ministry of Defence

Like, hello? No human rights abuses ever by those three, nooooo, could never happen...

[jherazob@mastodon.ie]

@aral @element
Oh for fuck's sake! I hate this timeline!

[aral@mastodon.ar.al]

@KarlHeinzHasliP @ahltorp @element Depends who you consider to be human, I guess.

[aral@mastodon.ar.al]

@jherazob @element You and I both, Jaime, you and I both.

[maybenot@mstdn.social]

@kravietz @couscous @aral @element @ahltorp

I see it that opponents view it as "blood money" that poisons the project, and supporters see it as "the police/military have these fuckloads of money, might as well have them go to some commons"

now, is "tapping MIC budgets for a good cause" enough to outweigh "selling your services to the oppressor"?

two things can be true at once, and there's an (at least perceived) risk of the project getting too chummy with the violence-dispensing institutions

[misusecase@twit.social]

@aral @precariousmind @element Hahaha. So next time I see someone putting down Signal and boosting Matrix, I can say “signal isn’t run by fascist bootlickers.”

[mpsi@toot.lv]

Imagine regaining effective, broadly inclusive democratic control where it was lost (or winning it where it was absent). Then the problem of slave-patrol mentality will be easy to solve. Otherwise, you will end up recreating the same thing under a new name. It's not the name that is the issue, it's the shape of the institution within societies that don't adhere to democratic standards.

[misusecase@twit.social]

@mpsi @aral @element >> Your position implies that the police is an enemy and that states shouldn't have any kind of law enforcement called "police".

Where have you been, bruh?

[mpsi@toot.lv]

@MisuseCase @aral @element Do you know that there are many different countries on this planet and some of them function much better than the US?

[davidgerard@circumstances.run]

@Tamtam @zzt @aral @element nobody wants to run a box (cos it sucks arse), everybody just wants to use a service

this leads directly to discord

and less directly to Matrix sponsored by ICE

[davidgerard@circumstances.run]

@Tamtam @zzt @aral @element and you can't educate people to want to run a box actually, i run one cos i'm a control addict and it still fucking sucks to have to do

[davidgerard@circumstances.run]

@mlen @zzt @aral @element if Signal had groups of group chats, that's Discord right there

[zzt@mas.to]

@davidgerard @mlen @aral @element I fucking should

[cygnathreadbare@retro.pizza]

@MisuseCase @aral @precariousmind @element b-but they tried to hid that almost all of their funding came from the fucking CIA for a decade...