PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
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PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
The “F” in FOSS doesn’t stand for fascism.
@element https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
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@element @aral in the context that these are public institutions and that you’ve been very public in supporting them with partnerships and technology: are you able to show me a case where an organization you partnered with violated items #5 or #6 in the link you posted and forced you to end the partnership?
@element @aral come on guys, I gave you such a softball with this one. I didn’t even talk about how your stated ethics are neoliberal claptrap desperately searching for a non-paradoxical definition of a good cop who can never exist.
all you gotta do is tell us explicitly you won’t work with ICE and give us an example of the consequences for a public institution that violated your ethics policy.
yes you can share that exact information; you’re receiving public money for your services.
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@aral This is not the case. See https://element.io/en/legal/ethics for the public ethics policy of who we sell to.
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@aral This is not the case. See https://element.io/en/legal/ethics for the public ethics policy of who we sell to.
@element Bro, this you? Don’t piss in my face and tell me it’s raining.
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Don't you think you've gone a bit too far with your chain of extrapolated fallacies? You've build a whole chain of hype that goes from "we offer paid consulting to corporate clients including governments" through "we sell to ICE" up to "we only sell to white fascists". Since Matrix is mostly used by edu in Germany and gov in France, how did you make this "white fascist" extrapolation, granted that plenty of government officials in Europe are black or of other non-white origin, e.g. minister Sarah El Haïry, Rima Abdul Malak or Fadila Khattabi in France?
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@aral @element @LukefromDC there is also @delta which seems pretty cool.
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PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
The “F” in FOSS doesn’t stand for fascism.
@element https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
@aral this looks like a promising solution that might work for some people https://peergos.org/
I haven't fully research it but might test it soon. -
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@ahltorp @aral @element Personally I think it's a big difference between selling to police, so they can be independent from US oligarchical tech companies, which will give all their data to the fascist US government if asked, and to sell to the Gestapo.
You don't have to agree with me, of course, but I don't see for example my own country disbandoning its police force any time soon, and I'd rather not have them reliant on MS Teams or the like. So imo Element having this distinction is good
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Don't you think you've gone a bit too far with your chain of extrapolated fallacies? You've build a whole chain of hype that goes from "we offer paid consulting to corporate clients including governments" through "we sell to ICE" up to "we only sell to white fascists". Since Matrix is mostly used by edu in Germany and gov in France, how did you make this "white fascist" extrapolation, granted that plenty of government officials in Europe are black or of other non-white origin, e.g. minister Sarah El Haïry, Rima Abdul Malak or Fadila Khattabi in France?
@kravietz
I'm french, and I wouldn't dare say that our past governments don't love authoritarianism at the very least (the people you mention are tokens, they do not care about their skin color, they help white supremacy anyway because they belong to the same class, and they've had terrible policies), and they drive us right into the hands of fascists...
sorry for this example you picked, it doesn't fit I think
@aral @element @ahltorp -
@ahltorp @aral @element Personally I think it's a big difference between selling to police, so they can be independent from US oligarchical tech companies, which will give all their data to the fascist US government if asked, and to sell to the Gestapo.
You don't have to agree with me, of course, but I don't see for example my own country disbandoning its police force any time soon, and I'd rather not have them reliant on MS Teams or the like. So imo Element having this distinction is good
@forteller I don’t necessarily agree completely with @aral, but I think Element should be really clear here. They posted a non-denial denial while referring to a policy that suggests ICE would be a welcome customer. I don’t have any other information on who they’re actually selling to, I’m only judging their behaviour.
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@element Bro, this you? Don’t piss in my face and tell me it’s raining.
@aral Your position implies that the police is an enemy and that states shouldn't have any kind of law enforcement called "police". But can you pledge that you will never, ever call the police, nor expect any police intervention or involvement, no matter what?
States are human super-organisms and their existence is both necessary and unavoidable in our world. And states need a police force to be effective. @element
