It’s ironic that points the left has been making for four decades - that the US couldn’t be relied on, that Europe needed to be “neither Washington nor Moscow” - have been so ably demonstrated by Trump.
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It’s ironic that points the left has been making for four decades - that the US couldn’t be relied on, that Europe needed to be “neither Washington nor Moscow” - have been so ably demonstrated by Trump.
@ianbetteridge I wouldn't say it's exactly irony. Trump is the precise scenario the left always said was inevitable.
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Reconstitute NATO without the US. Bring in Ukraine. Ukraine knows how to fight 21st century defensive wars. All the US knows how to do is bomb countries where they have air superiority- and even then, they lose.
@ianbetteridge There's a subset of NATO in a group called the Joint Expeditionary Force. Maybe bring in the rest of NATO, and Ukraine, and somehow forget to invite the USA to the meetings.
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It’s ironic that points the left has been making for four decades - that the US couldn’t be relied on, that Europe needed to be “neither Washington nor Moscow” - have been so ably demonstrated by Trump.
The left?
More like the French. Everyone else in NATO was very happy to follow the American lead. Or leash.
Hence the joke:
Trump is making America great again.
He is making Europeans gaullistes again.
And he is making British Europeans again. -
Reconstitute NATO without the US. Bring in Ukraine. Ukraine knows how to fight 21st century defensive wars. All the US knows how to do is bomb countries where they have air superiority- and even then, they lose.
@ianbetteridge to me, the most likely scenario for an attack on the USA would be a retaliation. Under the current circumstances, I don't think any other NATO state is eager to call that an attack on NATO. With the USA saying they want out anyway, they're practically no longer part of it.
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Reconstitute NATO without the US. Bring in Ukraine. Ukraine knows how to fight 21st century defensive wars. All the US knows how to do is bomb countries where they have air superiority- and even then, they lose.
@ianbetteridge Well there is SAFE, of which Canada is now a member. Maybe they can expand it from a financial arragement to an actual defense treaty organization.
SAFE | Security Action for Europe
Adopted by the Council of the European Union on the 27th of May 2025, Security Action for Europe (SAFE) is the EU’s new financial instrument designed to support Member States in joint investments in defence industrial production, with a focus on closing critical capability gaps.
Defence Industry and Space (defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu)
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It’s ironic that points the left has been making for four decades - that the US couldn’t be relied on, that Europe needed to be “neither Washington nor Moscow” - have been so ably demonstrated by Trump.
@ianbetteridge I’ve been nominally on The Left my entire life, but I have found it mostly to be incredibly naive, concerned more with its own moral purity than taking action, and incapable (and often uninterested) in governing.
The Left has been implacably opposed to the EU and NATO forever.
IMHO It should look long and hard at its own sins rather than preaching to the choir.
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@ianbetteridge Not to mention the potential need to defend against the US...
@gnate @ianbetteridge it’s not *that* implausible that they could justify to themselves the bombing of London because we have nukes and traitors like Liz Truss confirm lies about the Islamification of the UK.
MAGA would just say “I support Trump. I think he’s done the right thing”. The only basis for that being Fox News/Levitt press conference.
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It’s ironic that points the left has been making for four decades - that the US couldn’t be relied on, that Europe needed to be “neither Washington nor Moscow” - have been so ably demonstrated by Trump.
Trump got elected the first time because Hillary wasn’t Bernie.
The less said about the actual effects of Corbynism in the world the better.
Then there’s The Left’s love story with Russia.
At least once we are in government.. it turns out that we don’t have a unified vision, do nothing, and open the door for populism.
The Left needs to do its actual job.
Schumer? Starmer?
An ounce of humility would be good. Two ounces of pragmatism would be better.
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It’s ironic that points the left has been making for four decades - that the US couldn’t be relied on, that Europe needed to be “neither Washington nor Moscow” - have been so ably demonstrated by Trump.
@ianbetteridge I wish people would take note this time...
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Reconstitute NATO without the US. Bring in Ukraine. Ukraine knows how to fight 21st century defensive wars. All the US knows how to do is bomb countries where they have air superiority- and even then, they lose.
@ianbetteridge
NATO needs to relocate -
@tompearce49
That was The New York Times.
@Christo_459 @ianbetteridge -
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