Thought here … #fediforum, #fedidev, #atproto builders who are deeper in the architecture than I can get…
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Thought here … #fediforum, #fedidev, #atproto builders who are deeper in the architecture than I can get…
Are there any self-hosting options out there that can literally just be the sign-in server for other services? Where’s our independent, federated “sign in with {Google/fb/linkedIn/mastodon}” option? Am I just talking about a Mastodon instance that doesn’t federate and doesn’t allow posting?
Maybe this is not even a need, I’m trying to assemble a systems theory map in my head.
@johannab is indieauth what you're looking for? https://indieauth.com/
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@johannab I’d argue that centralised identity would be against the spirit of a federated system and federal identity already exists. At least that seems intuitive to me
E: or do you mean signing in on an instance with the identity from another?
@flying_saucers I would argue that the spirit of a federated system is that everyone should have the option of participating via use of whatever tools, models, languages, modes, and placements on the globally public vs. private, family-only spectrum suits them best in a given moment.
I'm considering how there might be a place for the completely naive new wanderer to land if we had a *literally* "click here for identity creation" option which they could then use to join, maintain, or leave nodes
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@flying_saucers I would argue that the spirit of a federated system is that everyone should have the option of participating via use of whatever tools, models, languages, modes, and placements on the globally public vs. private, family-only spectrum suits them best in a given moment.
I'm considering how there might be a place for the completely naive new wanderer to land if we had a *literally* "click here for identity creation" option which they could then use to join, maintain, or leave nodes
@flying_saucers not even suggesting that's a "centralized identity", just a starting point to *very easily* create a PORTABLE, fediverse identity when you haven't the first hint of an inkling of a clue what you're getting into or how to choose a format or a particular platform that implements that format or a particular instance of a platform or a particular "community" that accidentally collected on an instance ...
How does "grandma" sign up w/one click on a phone app and just read along?
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@flying_saucers not even suggesting that's a "centralized identity", just a starting point to *very easily* create a PORTABLE, fediverse identity when you haven't the first hint of an inkling of a clue what you're getting into or how to choose a format or a particular platform that implements that format or a particular instance of a platform or a particular "community" that accidentally collected on an instance ...
How does "grandma" sign up w/one click on a phone app and just read along?
@flying_saucers Almost all of this is already happening, with @anewsocial 's Bridgy & Bounce, the parts where we've got your 3rd or 4th or 18th ActivityPub server letting you "log in with Mastodon", and now FediProfile is sneaking in with "sign on with whatever ya got".
But there's nothing for people who aren't already here.
Those are the people who won't leave Xitter/Meta/LinkedIn because their "identity" is only present behind those walls.
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@johannab is indieauth what you're looking for? https://indieauth.com/
@zoy maaaaybe part of it? I need to read up, possibly with some coloured pencils and a pile of post-it notes on hand.
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Thought here … #fediforum, #fedidev, #atproto builders who are deeper in the architecture than I can get…
Are there any self-hosting options out there that can literally just be the sign-in server for other services? Where’s our independent, federated “sign in with {Google/fb/linkedIn/mastodon}” option? Am I just talking about a Mastodon instance that doesn’t federate and doesn’t allow posting?
Maybe this is not even a need, I’m trying to assemble a systems theory map in my head.
@johannab Not sure if the AP protocol includes federated identities but it should, but only for other fedi services. We dont want to let facebook et al manage our identities, but the is nothing wrong with fediverse servers federating identity management too. Us a mastodon.social account sign in to authenticate on other mastodon servers
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@johannab Not sure if the AP protocol includes federated identities but it should, but only for other fedi services. We dont want to let facebook et al manage our identities, but the is nothing wrong with fediverse servers federating identity management too. Us a mastodon.social account sign in to authenticate on other mastodon servers
@CaptMorgan that's kinda where my thinking is going, except I don't want it associated with m.s, either, or "mastodon", by name. We're already reaching a point where the impression that "Mastodon" is our only offering comparable to <old silo here> is doing harm to the rest of us, whether by capturing people, or putting people off.
The FediProfile app demo'd today lets a user create their profile with a LinkedIn sign-on, though otherwise it doesn't allow communication with that platform.
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@CaptMorgan that's kinda where my thinking is going, except I don't want it associated with m.s, either, or "mastodon", by name. We're already reaching a point where the impression that "Mastodon" is our only offering comparable to <old silo here> is doing harm to the rest of us, whether by capturing people, or putting people off.
The FediProfile app demo'd today lets a user create their profile with a LinkedIn sign-on, though otherwise it doesn't allow communication with that platform.
@CaptMorgan But that still requires that a new fedizen be at the very least someone with a LinkedIn identity. Arguably a worse situation than say, a "sign in with Google".
And does not address my "grandma" use case. How do we easily welcome the completely naive user who has not yet had a social networking application but wants to just wants to check out the options?
I'm definitely hypothesizing something that is, to us, and edge case and a reasonable response may be "why bother".
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@CaptMorgan But that still requires that a new fedizen be at the very least someone with a LinkedIn identity. Arguably a worse situation than say, a "sign in with Google".
And does not address my "grandma" use case. How do we easily welcome the completely naive user who has not yet had a social networking application but wants to just wants to check out the options?
I'm definitely hypothesizing something that is, to us, and edge case and a reasonable response may be "why bother".
@CaptMorgan But something that was pretty clear to me in talks/panels I attended is that the people who are completely out of our reach at the moment, and who will glaze over in 0.379 seconds if you start trying to explain to them how to "get on Mastodon", are possibly people who might have an outsized leverage to tip "sovereign social" into legitimacy.
Those are the grandparents we don't want to bother onboarding. The kids we're trying to ban.
and OUR SOCIAL AND POLITICAL AND ACADEMIC LEADERS
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@CaptMorgan But something that was pretty clear to me in talks/panels I attended is that the people who are completely out of our reach at the moment, and who will glaze over in 0.379 seconds if you start trying to explain to them how to "get on Mastodon", are possibly people who might have an outsized leverage to tip "sovereign social" into legitimacy.
Those are the grandparents we don't want to bother onboarding. The kids we're trying to ban.
and OUR SOCIAL AND POLITICAL AND ACADEMIC LEADERS
What if, instead of spending all day at a digital governance forum trying to tactically schmooze 2-3 people into connecting on LI so maybe there will be some mutual follow-up through which I can try to make a later appointment with them and maaaayyybe have enough legitimacy as a Graduate Student to pitch a little social engagement experiment but not say anything scary like "tech" ...
What if I had a QR code they could scan, click "sign in with iCloud" and follow my public feed?
