Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
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@stux For inspiration, the British ended the Atlantic Slave Trade. It took a long time and lots of effort—too much of each was required—but it happened in a nation that originally didn't see it as a problem.
@paulc Someone has to stand up at some point
If it's popular or not, it shouldn't matter
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Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
I started about taxing the super rich and getting rid of loop holes but they kept repeating stuff like:
"It's just how it is, accept it" and "We can't do anything about it, it's just how it woks."
And it kinda triggered me a bit..
Why the F would you accept shit as is?!
These are the same people who allow fascists to take over and start another world war..
@stux
Learned helplessness?Age has taught me that there are some things that no matter how vile, are just inevitable, and there are hard limits on how much one can do about them. When you have expended tons of energy and emotion on something only to see it revert each time, you start picking your fights to only those where you can make a difference.
Sometimes that is mistaken, because it was actually possible, but sometimes it is realistic
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@stux
Learned helplessness?Age has taught me that there are some things that no matter how vile, are just inevitable, and there are hard limits on how much one can do about them. When you have expended tons of energy and emotion on something only to see it revert each time, you start picking your fights to only those where you can make a difference.
Sometimes that is mistaken, because it was actually possible, but sometimes it is realistic
@mloxton I had such an idea but still..
The point of acceptance if the same as giving up I guess?
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@mloxton I had such an idea but still..
The point of acceptance if the same as giving up I guess?
@stux
Kinda
If it generalizes in other things they accept, it had probably become apathy, but if they are targeted about letting this one thing slide so they can focus on other things where they can make a difference, then maybe it is more strategic. -
Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
I started about taxing the super rich and getting rid of loop holes but they kept repeating stuff like:
"It's just how it is, accept it" and "We can't do anything about it, it's just how it woks."
And it kinda triggered me a bit..
Why the F would you accept shit as is?!
These are the same people who allow fascists to take over and start another world war..
@stux I am not sure *how* old these elderly people are but a good portion of elderly people aren't truly aware of "just how it is".
As just a surface example, I bought my home in 1999 for about $140k, and a home just like mine on my street recently sold for over $600k. My parents see this sort of thing on the news and are aware of it and will say things like "it must be hard for young people to buy a home if they are barely making $200k/year eh?" And I am like "oh mum they're lucky to make much more than half that" and they are just mind blown.
My parents were born before WW2 and grew up through the end of the depression and wartime rations so know hardship, but have lived their entire lives through fairly constant progress and prosperity. For older boomers they don't even know that pre war hardship, and comfortably retired they are all quite isolated from the experience of young adults. They cannot conceive of the concept 1st world society has unacceptably declined in recent years.
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Don't get me wrong, I think I know how reality works
It's not gonna change within a year or maybe 50..
But at some point people have to start and fight back
If we keep repeating "It's just how it is" shit will NEVER change
I refuse to accept shit as is, otherwise what's the point of everything
@stux@mstdn.social It feels like I spend half my life arguing either "if we don't keep saying this is wrong it will never change" or "this isn't going to change any time soon so we need to..."
This includes the arguing with myself. It's so hard some days to have the serenity to keep on believing things can and should change and doing what's possible, while also dealing with the reality of what's here right now. But it is also the only way to live life where I can both survive now and live with myself later.
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@stux I am not sure *how* old these elderly people are but a good portion of elderly people aren't truly aware of "just how it is".
As just a surface example, I bought my home in 1999 for about $140k, and a home just like mine on my street recently sold for over $600k. My parents see this sort of thing on the news and are aware of it and will say things like "it must be hard for young people to buy a home if they are barely making $200k/year eh?" And I am like "oh mum they're lucky to make much more than half that" and they are just mind blown.
My parents were born before WW2 and grew up through the end of the depression and wartime rations so know hardship, but have lived their entire lives through fairly constant progress and prosperity. For older boomers they don't even know that pre war hardship, and comfortably retired they are all quite isolated from the experience of young adults. They cannot conceive of the concept 1st world society has unacceptably declined in recent years.
@msh Boomers?
The oldest "Boomer" is 80. WWII ended in August 1945.
People who think $200k is normal income for "young people" are not living in the same reality as most other people. -
@msh Boomers?
The oldest "Boomer" is 80. WWII ended in August 1945.
People who think $200k is normal income for "young people" are not living in the same reality as most other people.@Jestbill my parents were born in the late 1930s and the leading edge of the boomers have been retired for some time, and many of them are comfortably retired. That is exactly who I mean by early boomers...a specific subgroup of them who were born into postwar prosperity but retired for perhaps over a decade. Their own children may even be about to retire.
A good many of them do indeed live in a different reality from most other people.
People in this cohort are aware that these are..."trying times"...but really do not have a full awareness of what it is like for younger generations any more.
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@Jestbill my parents were born in the late 1930s and the leading edge of the boomers have been retired for some time, and many of them are comfortably retired. That is exactly who I mean by early boomers...a specific subgroup of them who were born into postwar prosperity but retired for perhaps over a decade. Their own children may even be about to retire.
A good many of them do indeed live in a different reality from most other people.
People in this cohort are aware that these are..."trying times"...but really do not have a full awareness of what it is like for younger generations any more.
@msh The Silent generation: 1928-1945.
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@msh The Silent generation: 1928-1945.
@Jestbill AKA "the fortunate few", old enough to remember wartime hardship from a children's perspective, young enough not to be sent into battle, like my parents.
They share a lot of characteristics of early boomers, with the added dimension of knowing to some degree the hardship of pre ww2 life. They have long held the belief that prosperity came through hard work and merit.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here?
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@Jestbill AKA "the fortunate few", old enough to remember wartime hardship from a children's perspective, young enough not to be sent into battle, like my parents.
They share a lot of characteristics of early boomers, with the added dimension of knowing to some degree the hardship of pre ww2 life. They have long held the belief that prosperity came through hard work and merit.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here?
@msh My point was made several times. STOP BLAMING BOOMERS FOR YOUR STUPID POLITICAL DECISIONS.
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@msh My point was made several times. STOP BLAMING BOOMERS FOR YOUR STUPID POLITICAL DECISIONS.
@Jestbill OK it is clear you have missed the point of this whole thread so I will disengage now thanks.
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@paulc Someone has to stand up at some point
If it's popular or not, it shouldn't matter
-
Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
I started about taxing the super rich and getting rid of loop holes but they kept repeating stuff like:
"It's just how it is, accept it" and "We can't do anything about it, it's just how it woks."
And it kinda triggered me a bit..
Why the F would you accept shit as is?!
These are the same people who allow fascists to take over and start another world war..
@stux I am 74, in UK, and my wife and I see that 'house prices have gone up 'lots of percent' and we say "that'll be great for our kids - but it is no good if you need to upsize or move house as those prices will have gone up too, and you will have to pay the silly prices now being demanded"
This is my home, not a cash cow! -
Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
I started about taxing the super rich and getting rid of loop holes but they kept repeating stuff like:
"It's just how it is, accept it" and "We can't do anything about it, it's just how it woks."
And it kinda triggered me a bit..
Why the F would you accept shit as is?!
These are the same people who allow fascists to take over and start another world war..
People who started out in the boom years before the Reagan/Thatcher reaction, when taxes on the rich prevented the emergence of billionaires and there was funding for social goods and services, have lost perspective. It's the baseline fallacy: they just assume what they had is normal.
And admitting things are different now would mean acknowledging that all the reactionary tax cuts and roll-backs of social benefits they voted for were at the expense of others. It would mean they were selfish. Not intentionally, of course: but they bought the BS.
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@stux I am 74, in UK, and my wife and I see that 'house prices have gone up 'lots of percent' and we say "that'll be great for our kids - but it is no good if you need to upsize or move house as those prices will have gone up too, and you will have to pay the silly prices now being demanded"
This is my home, not a cash cow!@jayflo I remeber my parents build a house a year before i was born, it was a pretty huge house and i estimate under half a million at the time
Currently it's almost 3 times that
(they dont own it anymore)A house we recently wanted to rent was on market for 450K and it was a relative simple house
We don't stand a chance
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Don't get me wrong, I think I know how reality works
It's not gonna change within a year or maybe 50..
But at some point people have to start and fight back
If we keep repeating "It's just how it is" shit will NEVER change
I refuse to accept shit as is, otherwise what's the point of everything
@stux
I think that sort of lazy thinking is present across the generations.
Society has always* seemed to be split into those who accept the status quo, those who don't, and those who are prepared to attempt to change society.
(*Speaking as a 70 year old)I don't think these divisions are necessarily driven by class or education, more by life experiences, and maybe to some extent the attitude of parents.
The ones who fight for change need the 'passive' group for support (moral, financial & political). The passive group can influence the 'acceptance' group to change their views, and to take simple action like voting differently.
People may slowly move between groups as their circumstances change.Just my theory.
Hold the faith!
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Don't get me wrong, I think I know how reality works
It's not gonna change within a year or maybe 50..
But at some point people have to start and fight back
If we keep repeating "It's just how it is" shit will NEVER change
I refuse to accept shit as is, otherwise what's the point of everything
@stux it's more insidious. Some will not act in case of utter injustice/abuse. Some will even find excuses to call legal things illegal if "they don't agree". Such people are a danger at times.
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Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
I started about taxing the super rich and getting rid of loop holes but they kept repeating stuff like:
"It's just how it is, accept it" and "We can't do anything about it, it's just how it woks."
And it kinda triggered me a bit..
Why the F would you accept shit as is?!
These are the same people who allow fascists to take over and start another world war..
Sounds like they might be comfortable people and the suffering hasn't reached them yet, maybe?
People have to get fed up, out of patience. High empathy people can get fed up with the suffering of others. Low empathy people have to suffer directly, or see people just like themselves suffering, before they can get fed up.
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Yesterday we had some elderly people over for our bday and at some point we talked about billionaires and how they should not exist
I started about taxing the super rich and getting rid of loop holes but they kept repeating stuff like:
"It's just how it is, accept it" and "We can't do anything about it, it's just how it woks."
And it kinda triggered me a bit..
Why the F would you accept shit as is?!
These are the same people who allow fascists to take over and start another world war..
@stux they sound like someone who understands how difficult it is to tax a powerful person with almost unlimited resources who can pay experts and workers to execute anything while they themselves sit on the beach un-bothered by any of it.
