I've never met a femme-presenting¹ person who didn't have a sexual harassment/assault story.
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@ellesaurus when I said "never" I suppose that comes with some qualifications.
However, for each qualification—like, say, over the age of 4—I know an exception.
So to say "never" is really to say, "for every person I know, the odds of them having been sexually harassed or assaulted approaches 100% over time, but it approaches 100% far faster for the femme-presenting ones."
Also, I'm sorry for othering you. I understand that (even fucked up) rites of passage are still rites of passage, and I didn't mean to diminish your femininity with my choice of language.
@alice It's quite alright, I entirely get it. It's less you and more that I've seen it over and over how it's suggested to be every single woman (or in this case, femme)*.
The discussion of how it's the vast majority is still really important, and more important than getting it perfect. But I also want others who are in my place to also know they're not alone in that.
*I recognize you also didn't literally say everyone, so that's even more where it's about the recurring convo
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@damonology @alice I'm glad to hear it stopped for you on T but as a transmasc genderqueer person who cannot medically transition due to health reasons this isn't the case for me.
So yes, men get SA'd too, especially trans men/mascs who cannot transition. Idk op that inb4 was kind of crappy.
@ghostprince non-femme-presenting folx do get assaulted and harassed. I used the term "femme-presenting" because that's who I was talking to (I'm not a woman).
I added the InB4 because every time I talk about sexual harassment, feminist topics, or just about anything that can be interpreted as calling out men, I get (usually white) cishet men derailing the replies to tell everyone that they have problems too.
Also, I'm sorry you're unable to medically transition (assuming you phrased it that way because you would like to); everybody should have the available options (and rights) to present as they feel fits them.
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@alice I was aged 10... I don't have the words to say on main the severity, the frequency, who was involved. It is nothing short of harrowing.
I still cry for that 10y old.
@dee I'm so sorry that happened to you 🫂
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I've never met a femme-presenting¹ person who didn't have a sexual harassment/assault story.
Most have one from within the past week.
My most recent harassment was yesterday (but I haven't really left the house yet today, so there's still time).
My first sexual assault was at ~13².
¹ InB4 some guy hops in to remind us all that men get SA'd too
² that I remember@alice sigh, yes, we had ours almost immediately upon transition
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@alice sigh, yes, we had ours almost immediately upon transition
@alice from a medical professional. so we had to learn how to navigate that. very annoying.
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I've never met a femme-presenting¹ person who didn't have a sexual harassment/assault story.
Most have one from within the past week.
My most recent harassment was yesterday (but I haven't really left the house yet today, so there's still time).
My first sexual assault was at ~13².
¹ InB4 some guy hops in to remind us all that men get SA'd too
² that I remember@alice I was never really femme-presenting irl except having longer hair but still I got sexually harassed pretty easily for merely setting my gender to female on forums or mmorpgs and talk in a non-assertive way as early as when I was 16
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I've never met a femme-presenting¹ person who didn't have a sexual harassment/assault story.
Most have one from within the past week.
My most recent harassment was yesterday (but I haven't really left the house yet today, so there's still time).
My first sexual assault was at ~13².
¹ InB4 some guy hops in to remind us all that men get SA'd too
² that I rememberi've only been out for a few years and am largely a shut-in, and as such i have not
in time i'm sure i will join the gang too :<
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@ghostprince non-femme-presenting folx do get assaulted and harassed. I used the term "femme-presenting" because that's who I was talking to (I'm not a woman).
I added the InB4 because every time I talk about sexual harassment, feminist topics, or just about anything that can be interpreted as calling out men, I get (usually white) cishet men derailing the replies to tell everyone that they have problems too.
Also, I'm sorry you're unable to medically transition (assuming you phrased it that way because you would like to); everybody should have the available options (and rights) to present as they feel fits them.
Ah, understandable - thank you for explaining your stance for me. I appreciate it a lot especially your levelheadedness. I totally understand your frustrations with the derailing. That is correct, I would like to transition but my illnesses make things rather challenging in that regard.
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@alice
Hi, my name is Faith. Now you have.@Faith thanks for speaking up.
Also, re: your old account—we only geoblocked images and videos from loading for folx with UK IP addresses. All other functions have always remained unrestricted.
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@ghostprince
My reading of the "inb4" is more to do with the fact that whenever someone is talking about the disproportionate amount of sexual harassment/assault/etc that femme presenting folks experience, there's often a comment about how "men experience it too, therefore..."That sort of comment often proceeds to invalidate, diminish, or even shame the OP for relaying their experience instead of using it as a basis for solidarity.
@h3mmy @ghostprince @damonology @alice and let's be real, the same mechanism of patriarchy is at play when it happens to men. The assumption that they're all meant to be dominant sex machines and therefore *couldn't* say no and "are you even a real man if you didn't want it?" rhetoric. Patriarchy is more misandrist than any radfem.
When they fail to address the "why" it becomes crystal clear that it's a silencing tactic to recenter men.
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@alice in my case, I'm transfeminine, came out at age 34. I don't have any memories of CSA, but I don't have very many memories of my childhood in general, and some of my trauma responses would suggest that something occurred along those lines. (I don't identify as a CSA survivor, to be clear, because I don't want to speak over those who are sure about their experiences.)
as an adult, though, I've had some experiences both pre- and post-transition that I've reluctantly come to recognize were, absolutely, sexual abuse.
@YKantRachelRead @alice <sits nearby for company>
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@alice It's quite alright, I entirely get it. It's less you and more that I've seen it over and over how it's suggested to be every single woman (or in this case, femme)*.
The discussion of how it's the vast majority is still really important, and more important than getting it perfect. But I also want others who are in my place to also know they're not alone in that.
*I recognize you also didn't literally say everyone, so that's even more where it's about the recurring convo
As I grow older, I've come to realize that speaking in superlatives is rarely an accurate practice. There's always a caveat, and using terms like "nearly everyone" or, "the vast majority", even when talking about your friends, is the best form of speech.
I'm currently 45, and I'm still learning.
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The proportion is the same, under-reported on men's side due to societal stigma.
Is men going "hey, we experience this too" not also a call for solidarity? Why is this call being ignored? Because a specific class of men decided to run rampant with power, we should ignore those pleas for community?
@ghostprince It is absolutely not the same proportion. Under-reporting happens all around, for one. From all reliable studies, though, the proportion is heavily, heavily one-sided.
43.6% of women have experienced some form of "contact sexual violence". Half that for men. When it comes to completed or attempted rape, specifically, it's 21.3% of women and only 2.6% of men.
(Note: I'm a little confused about how a man can be "made to penetrate" someone, but that not be rape? That sounds like textbook rape. But even if we use that number, which is 7.1%, that is 1/3 of the rate women experience rape.)
(Note #2: for both "rape" and "made to penetrate", those numbers include both "completed" and "attempted".)
https://www.nsvrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2015data-brief508.pdf
The proportion's not the same, and it's not even close.
Every instance is a tragedy! But let's have an accurate picture of the problem.
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I've never met a femme-presenting¹ person who didn't have a sexual harassment/assault story.
Most have one from within the past week.
My most recent harassment was yesterday (but I haven't really left the house yet today, so there's still time).
My first sexual assault was at ~13².
¹ InB4 some guy hops in to remind us all that men get SA'd too
² that I remember@alice the first day I went outside femme-presenting
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@alice I was aged 10... I don't have the words to say on main the severity, the frequency, who was involved. It is nothing short of harrowing.
I still cry for that 10y old.
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@alice from a medical professional. so we had to learn how to navigate that. very annoying.
@ireneista @alice I also experienced this.
/sympathy -
i've only been out for a few years and am largely a shut-in, and as such i have not
in time i'm sure i will join the gang too :<
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@alice sigh, yes, we had ours almost immediately upon transition
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@ireneista @alice I also experienced this.
/sympathy@Willow also /sympathy 🫂
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I've never met a femme-presenting¹ person who didn't have a sexual harassment/assault story.
Most have one from within the past week.
My most recent harassment was yesterday (but I haven't really left the house yet today, so there's still time).
My first sexual assault was at ~13².
¹ InB4 some guy hops in to remind us all that men get SA'd too
² that I remember@alice I’ve come to expect the casual street harassment whenever I’m on foot for an extended period.
I was harassed by a medical provider at urgent care the first summer after I came out, and assaulted in a club last year.
I wrote about the latter here: https://chaosfem.tw/@Willow/115032757839470915
