Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris.
-
I understand where you are all coming from.
I do not see this as productive.
I see no one mentioned Gaza.
The reality is that systems did not give good choices. To say otherwise is to deny the real issue.
Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Passion harnessed should be pushed toward the future, not used to calcify the past.
We can do better. We should do better. So let's do better. Please.
@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl "I see no one mentioned Gaza."
Because Gaza is basically an Internet meme. Nobody in real life who votes is putting it ahead of their own personal comforts and grievances.
-
@TagYourToe @randahl You guys do so much personal attacking.
Populism was also why all the boomer and Gen X people think cat pics are okay when the world is falling apart. It was US truth for the last half of 20th century. Like having a high wage? Unions. Like that I can marry a partner of my choosing? Legal followed moral popularity.
@classwario Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
-
-
@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl Look I’m not trying to long form. The majority voted against Trump in 2020. Not in 2024. And that those two positions (Kamala lost because people didn’t vote, as you said) are tied together, cognitive dissonance notwithstanding, I’d argue proves the overlap
@classwario @randahl The majority voted against Trump in 2024. The problem is that votes for third parties don't work because we have a system designed to be a two party system and no ranked voting or anything like that. So all those third party votes were useless. Which is exactly what those who lead people to make them wanted.
If you took just the third party votes and shifted them to Harris via ranked voting when the third parties failed, Trump would have lost.
-
@nando161 @benroyce @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl I agree with Ben that skipping the vote is foolish. But I am curious.
Can’t you just show up and vote for a write-in candidate instead of paying a fine? Pardon my ignorance of Australian election law.
@mls14 @nando161 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
Why show up and draw a penis on your ballot when you can do nothing at all, including ignoring fines
This what we're arguing with
The entitled laziness of the nonvoter
All of their rationalizations for their indolence is just that:
A smokescreen for the fact they do not care if we slide to fascism
Because in their mind, we're already fascist
Oh boy I'd love to see their faces when they realize what real fascism is
They may get their wish
-
@classwario @randahl The majority voted against Trump in 2024. The problem is that votes for third parties don't work because we have a system designed to be a two party system and no ranked voting or anything like that. So all those third party votes were useless. Which is exactly what those who lead people to make them wanted.
If you took just the third party votes and shifted them to Harris via ranked voting when the third parties failed, Trump would have lost.
@classwario @randahl The big distinction here is that people still voted against him and all he represented, they were just tricked into throwing away their votes via various methods.
We'll agree that the Democrats are right-aligned. But I will not agree that they are the same as the Republican party. They may agree on some policies since both are on the right/in the pockets of corporations, etc etc, but the ultimate differences are still huge.
The real issue is we have no true left party.
-
@randahl "Populism" wtf
-
@jasper89 @benroyce @randahl I kind of get it, in the past EUropeans against happy vassalage to a (largely) benevolent hegemon were either tankie morons or fash losers. He probably thinks I'm comparing their politicians or gaming outcomes based on THEIR politics (because tbh a lot of EUropeans rubberneck at their shitshow). I can see why the American mind cannot comprehend that normie EUropeans don't all have a rosy view of their fp under Rhodes or Sullivan either (Syria...especially re: Syria).
-
-
@jasper89 @benroyce @randahl I kind of get it, in the past EUropeans against happy vassalage to a (largely) benevolent hegemon were either tankie morons or fash losers. He probably thinks I'm comparing their politicians or gaming outcomes based on THEIR politics (because tbh a lot of EUropeans rubberneck at their shitshow). I can see why the American mind cannot comprehend that normie EUropeans don't all have a rosy view of their fp under Rhodes or Sullivan either (Syria...especially re: Syria).
i still don't understand your point
i think you don't understand my point
you make a decision at every crossroads
you don't look at past crossroads and conclude the existence of crossroads are the problem, therefore all decisions now are as bad as all decisions then
right?
if you agree, then what are you trying to say?
-
@nando161 @mls14 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
and i thought the selfishness of the plutocrat was bad
-
@nando161 @mls14 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
your inaction supports fascism, politics professor
of course the vote matters
better, vs worse
that is all there ever is in this world, forever
it's not perfection vs not perfection
that's a "choice" only in the minds of dimwits
or, in the minds of those who just don't fucking care about anything at all, except masturbating their ego while the world goes to shit- partly because so many sit around masturbating their ego instead of simply voting
-
@randahl Respectfully, the electoral college picks the president in the United States, not the popular vote (see Bush v Gore).
Harris never did anything as vice president that implied she'd be good at anything except talking in circles.
I'm not political, but I'm familiar with the names.
Wars happen because banks want to lock countries into further debt and/or establish their central bank in the "bad guy" country.
Your politician is just the influencer face of the machine.
@rayocentric
Putin is a tool of which bank?
@randahl -
@classwario @randahl The majority voted against Trump in 2024. The problem is that votes for third parties don't work because we have a system designed to be a two party system and no ranked voting or anything like that. So all those third party votes were useless. Which is exactly what those who lead people to make them wanted.
If you took just the third party votes and shifted them to Harris via ranked voting when the third parties failed, Trump would have lost.
@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php
RFK was a Trump vote at the end. If you take RFK as a vote against Trump (I’d argue he was just an excuse to vote for Trump by election), then the swing margin is 2% vs 1.47% difference 1st and 2nd. Okay. But, that was another spot Dems got outplayed.
As far as that goes, and if adults vote for least evil, Kamala could have brought RFK on, as despicable as he is, kept him at bay, and likely won. But , her own protestation matched populace
-
@nando161 @mls14 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
ah back to the quote rolodex, instead of thinking and responding honestly
nice wall against reason you have there, selfish useless lump
-
i still don't understand your point
i think you don't understand my point
you make a decision at every crossroads
you don't look at past crossroads and conclude the existence of crossroads are the problem, therefore all decisions now are as bad as all decisions then
right?
if you agree, then what are you trying to say?
@benroyce @jasper89 @randahl The OP romanticises this: "she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe". This is... not my desired outcome, regardless of who is your President.
(Not that I haven't made my peace with the cowardice of most of the EUCO. I'm not getting
strategic autonomy if you ever have free elections again, someone like President Sexy Bateman will result in Merz & co. begging to go back to living in your basement fulltime, like the world's oldest hikikomori.) -
@nando161 @mls14 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
hey nando:
no one is impressed with your quote rolodex
we all see it is thought terminating bullshit on your part
enjoy your selfish useless existence
if you don't care, that's fine
so shut up so those of us who do care can fix this world, without your help
get your popcorn and laugh
enjoy yourself
you're a pathetic inert lump
a cold, dead heart
what a miserable existence
-
@benroyce @jasper89 @randahl The OP romanticises this: "she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe". This is... not my desired outcome, regardless of who is your President.
(Not that I haven't made my peace with the cowardice of most of the EUCO. I'm not getting
strategic autonomy if you ever have free elections again, someone like President Sexy Bateman will result in Merz & co. begging to go back to living in your basement fulltime, like the world's oldest hikikomori.) -
Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl
I'm not sure.
We had the opportunities before.
We did nothing. Just hoped, the world will stay the same. (Though it can't)Kamala Harris is just one person in a big machine that stopped moving forward. She's good of course, but she's not alone.
But now there's more and more apparent how things shouldn't be.
And finally we (Europeans) are on a way that may lead to a brighter future. (I still believe) -
Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl I still dont get how the voting wasnt rigged, like is the average voter that sexist or something, ig so , they had experience with trump previously tho
