Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris.
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@classwario @randahl Oh there is a whole lot less overlap than you think. The Republican party has been moving further and further towards nazi-like ways for a long time.
The real issue is the Democratic party is, overall, a right party. But that doesn't mean they overlap. The Republican party is an ultra-far right party. Or was. By this last election they were an undisguised nazi party.
People still willfully chose not to vote against the greater evil.
@classwario @randahl And don't get me wrong. Having to vote for the lesser evil is utter crap. Dumpster full of diapers fire crap.
But the difference is clear: if people had voted for the Democrat, she would have at least listened on some issues and done some good. If people voted for the Republican he would destroy our democracy and ensure we could never vote again.
He didn't win by popularity. He won by mass campaigns to trick people to apply two sets of rules.
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@classwario @randahl Oh there is a whole lot less overlap than you think. The Republican party has been moving further and further towards nazi-like ways for a long time.
The real issue is the Democratic party is, overall, a right party. But that doesn't mean they overlap. The Republican party is an ultra-far right party. Or was. By this last election they were an undisguised nazi party.
People still willfully chose not to vote against the greater evil.
@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl I don’t disagree with you. I also said the share is a circle. So maybe not more than I think?
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@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl I don’t disagree with you. I also said the share is a circle. So maybe not more than I think?
@classwario @randahl And... I'm saying it's not...
The Democrats aren't a left party. We do agree on that part. But the supposed overlap is a lot less than you think because the Republican party is not merely right. They're ultra-far right "let's kidnap people off the streets and throw them into concentration camps."
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@classwario @randahl And don't get me wrong. Having to vote for the lesser evil is utter crap. Dumpster full of diapers fire crap.
But the difference is clear: if people had voted for the Democrat, she would have at least listened on some issues and done some good. If people voted for the Republican he would destroy our democracy and ensure we could never vote again.
He didn't win by popularity. He won by mass campaigns to trick people to apply two sets of rules.
@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl was still popularity, though. A two party system makes a 1 degree swing actionable in elections, so of course there was more in play. But the dems are playing the same game. And, yes, 2024 was a monumental failure of popularity for the “left”
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@nando161 @mls14 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
so a willing participant in fascism
you think not voting is a statement
well it is a statement: "i don't care"
you think you are taking some sort of high road
when your actions are simply that of a nazi collaborator
yes, it is
you don't realize it, but that's what it is. you will not fight. you will submit. you think it won't touch you. oh it certainly will
or you secretly cheer it on, and hide behind big words
the entitlement of the nonvoter
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@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl was still popularity, though. A two party system makes a 1 degree swing actionable in elections, so of course there was more in play. But the dems are playing the same game. And, yes, 2024 was a monumental failure of popularity for the “left”
@classwario @randahl Like I said, the masses were tricked into not voting or voting third party in a system that is designed not to allow third party votes to win.
That's not winning by popularity, that's winning by technicality. The grand majority simply didn't vote or voted for someone else.
If we had ranked voting, she still would have won *easily*. Even with so many not voting. That's how close this was. Most voted against him.
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What’s with all the cutesy “hon”, “think about what you just said” looking down approach? You doing well? Ivory tower not quite smelling the smoke from below yet?
Populism simply means anti elite. For leftists to use it as pejorative is akin to the right using socialism as a bellwether.
Populism is plurality.
@classwario @randahl No, populism is how The Reign of Terror came about, and it was actually a very bad thing that killed far more commoners than elites. Just as the Trump regime is doing now.
You're hotboxing disinfo vapors too much. Take a break, get some air.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
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The nasty rhetoric. The accusation of fascism or supporting it.
I was respectful. I have moved on.
I have seen too often this sort of thing. Too often. And when I have said something, the rhetoric spews out. The insults. The value signaling they demand in kind.
It looks a lot like MAGA to me, just to the left.
So. Good luck. I will be where my input is valued, not where I am insulted.
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@classwario @randahl Like I said, the masses were tricked into not voting or voting third party in a system that is designed not to allow third party votes to win.
That's not winning by popularity, that's winning by technicality. The grand majority simply didn't vote or voted for someone else.
If we had ranked voting, she still would have won *easily*. Even with so many not voting. That's how close this was. Most voted against him.
@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl it’s all still popularity. The Dems just don’t know the game they’re playing. There is never a perfect case. Democracy isn’t a sandbox. Life is messy. To lose and to scream unfair is still to lose.
The lack of distinction of difference in party is why Kamala lost. To your point, vote against the greater evil. To your point, race to the bottom. But the difference in supporting elites in letter and in arms is sliding scale. Still a lot of shared.
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@nando161 @mls14 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
you have a nice deck of quotes
do you think it shields you from lack of thought and lack of honesty?
i have no doubt you're honestly expressing your sincere beliefs
i also have no doubt your sincere beliefs are unmitigated dishonest horseshit
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@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl it’s all still popularity. The Dems just don’t know the game they’re playing. There is never a perfect case. Democracy isn’t a sandbox. Life is messy. To lose and to scream unfair is still to lose.
The lack of distinction of difference in party is why Kamala lost. To your point, vote against the greater evil. To your point, race to the bottom. But the difference in supporting elites in letter and in arms is sliding scale. Still a lot of shared.
@classwario @randahl The majority voted against Trump. We just have a system where it didn't matter. We have different definitions of "popularity" I guess.
And, again, as I said, most were tricked into two sets of rules. On the right they accept a pedophile rapist because he promises to kill people they were taught to hate. On the left people refused to vote for Harris because she wasn't strong enough against Gaza. It took a lot of work to get people to apply two sets of rules like that...
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
It's an astroturf populism purchased by a fossil fuel industry determined to keep their control.
War. Ecocide. Famine. Genocide. Fascism. Slavery. Concentration camps. Mass deportations. Public corruption in the courts.
This is what the fossil fuel axis alliance is buying.
Trump to Big Oil Execs: Give Me $1 Billion and I'll Help You Wreck the Planet | Common Dreams
"You won't read a more important story today," said one commentator. "Trump is willing to literally destroy the planet for $1 billion."
Common Dreams (www.commondreams.org)
https://www.ft.com/content/4ef6e06d-b877-4444-b58a-427513c58516
https://archive.is/yHDuY
Can EU renewables outmuscle US oil and gas?
While Washington gets nostalgic about fossil fuels, European countries are cashing in on efficiency and low‑cost renewables.
dw.com (www.dw.com)
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
Actually, it was billionaires…
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@randahl Respectfully, the electoral college picks the president in the United States, not the popular vote (see Bush v Gore).
Harris never did anything as vice president that implied she'd be good at anything except talking in circles.
I'm not political, but I'm familiar with the names.
Wars happen because banks want to lock countries into further debt and/or establish their central bank in the "bad guy" country.
Your politician is just the influencer face of the machine.
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I hate that people call fascism “populism”.
Sounds euphemistic.
Fascism may be populist too, but only when the people turned fascists too.
@JackMexa4 Guess what.
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@classwario @randahl No, populism is how The Reign of Terror came about, and it was actually a very bad thing that killed far more commoners than elites. Just as the Trump regime is doing now.
You're hotboxing disinfo vapors too much. Take a break, get some air.
@TagYourToe @randahl You guys do so much personal attacking.
Populism was also why all the boomer and Gen X people think cat pics are okay when the world is falling apart. It was US truth for the last half of 20th century. Like having a high wage? Unions. Like that I can marry a partner of my choosing? Legal followed moral popularity.
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@nando161 @benroyce @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl I agree with Ben that skipping the vote is foolish. But I am curious.
Can’t you just show up and vote for a write-in candidate instead of paying a fine? Pardon my ignorance of Australian election law.
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@classwario @randahl The majority voted against Trump. We just have a system where it didn't matter. We have different definitions of "popularity" I guess.
And, again, as I said, most were tricked into two sets of rules. On the right they accept a pedophile rapist because he promises to kill people they were taught to hate. On the left people refused to vote for Harris because she wasn't strong enough against Gaza. It took a lot of work to get people to apply two sets of rules like that...
@nazokiyoubinbou @randahl Look I’m not trying to long form. The majority voted against Trump in 2020. Not in 2024. And that those two positions (Kamala lost because people didn’t vote, as you said) are tied together, cognitive dissonance notwithstanding, I’d argue proves the overlap
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I understand where you are all coming from.
I do not see this as productive.
I see no one mentioned Gaza.
The reality is that systems did not give good choices. To say otherwise is to deny the real issue.
Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Passion harnessed should be pushed toward the future, not used to calcify the past.
We can do better. We should do better. So let's do better. Please.
@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl "I see no one mentioned Gaza."
Because Gaza is basically an Internet meme. Nobody in real life who votes is putting it ahead of their own personal comforts and grievances.
