The NHS effectively subsidises private health care by picking up the pieces when patients become too ill for the private clinics/hospitals to deal with.
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The NHS effectively subsidises private health care by picking up the pieces when patients become too ill for the private clinics/hospitals to deal with.
The Centre for Health & the Public Interest finds up to 6,000 patients a year are transferred from private to NHS facilities due to complications (& these are only the direct transfers, not those after treatment) costing the NHS at least £250m a year.
The NHS should be (at the very least) paid for these 'rescues'!
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The NHS effectively subsidises private health care by picking up the pieces when patients become too ill for the private clinics/hospitals to deal with.
The Centre for Health & the Public Interest finds up to 6,000 patients a year are transferred from private to NHS facilities due to complications (& these are only the direct transfers, not those after treatment) costing the NHS at least £250m a year.
The NHS should be (at the very least) paid for these 'rescues'!
@ChrisMayLA6
When I first came to Leicester it was to work in the laboratory inthe Regional Cardiothoracic Unit back in the early 80s.
We did a lot of clever cardiac surgery including some 'breakthrough' research.But I was shocked at how many patients were transferred to the NHS Intensive Care Unit from the local private hospital which did much more routine cardiac surgery - which of course was performed by exactly the same surgeons, usually on a Friday evening or Saturday. There was no overnight medical cover at the private hospital, so anyone with a hint of a problem was dumped on the NHS.
It still happens today.
Medical Tourism is another modern equivalent. -
@ChrisMayLA6
When I first came to Leicester it was to work in the laboratory inthe Regional Cardiothoracic Unit back in the early 80s.
We did a lot of clever cardiac surgery including some 'breakthrough' research.But I was shocked at how many patients were transferred to the NHS Intensive Care Unit from the local private hospital which did much more routine cardiac surgery - which of course was performed by exactly the same surgeons, usually on a Friday evening or Saturday. There was no overnight medical cover at the private hospital, so anyone with a hint of a problem was dumped on the NHS.
It still happens today.
Medical Tourism is another modern equivalent.@MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Perhaps such situations could be avoided if a rule was introduced along the lines that if a patient is not in a condition to leave hospital and no longer require significant care then the initial clinic is responsible for all care and treatment and associated costs. The NHS could then bill private clinics who shove patients on them for incomplete care and treatment costs.
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@MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Perhaps such situations could be avoided if a rule was introduced along the lines that if a patient is not in a condition to leave hospital and no longer require significant care then the initial clinic is responsible for all care and treatment and associated costs. The NHS could then bill private clinics who shove patients on them for incomplete care and treatment costs.
I'd guess a waiver for private admission would then become standard.... unless the requirement was made unalienable - but you can also imagine the legal cases around cost-recovery... but that's not to say its not a good suggestion
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@MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Perhaps such situations could be avoided if a rule was introduced along the lines that if a patient is not in a condition to leave hospital and no longer require significant care then the initial clinic is responsible for all care and treatment and associated costs. The NHS could then bill private clinics who shove patients on them for incomplete care and treatment costs.
@alex_p_roe @ChrisMayLA6
As much as the NHS 'internal market' is an abomination the existing mechanism could be used for both transferred patients from private care and for medical tourism.If the initial treatment wasn't provided for by the Trust giving the later care (and there was no agreement in place to provide that care) then the cost of the later - emergency - care falls onto the initial provider. If the first treatment was overseas it would end up being the patient, or travel insurer. Within the UK the private hospital or ultimately the private healthcare insurance company would have to pick up the bill.
This would increase the cost of private healthcare insurance (small violin) and travel insurance but it potentially puts a big chunk of money into the NHS.
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The NHS effectively subsidises private health care by picking up the pieces when patients become too ill for the private clinics/hospitals to deal with.
The Centre for Health & the Public Interest finds up to 6,000 patients a year are transferred from private to NHS facilities due to complications (& these are only the direct transfers, not those after treatment) costing the NHS at least £250m a year.
The NHS should be (at the very least) paid for these 'rescues'!
Long ago, I did dispatching for a private ambulance service. Its entire revenue model was to transport patients from private clinics and hospitals - to public hospitals.
In the USA, we call this patient dumping. The first step would be a proper accounting for the services provided.
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I'd guess a waiver for private admission would then become standard.... unless the requirement was made unalienable - but you can also imagine the legal cases around cost-recovery... but that's not to say its not a good suggestion
@ChrisMayLA6 @MikeFromLFE The finer points would need to be hammered out to keep legal cases to an absolute minimum. It’d probably discourage private services from accepting certain patients thus causing them to seek NHS care and this might lead to increased funding
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@alex_p_roe @ChrisMayLA6
As much as the NHS 'internal market' is an abomination the existing mechanism could be used for both transferred patients from private care and for medical tourism.If the initial treatment wasn't provided for by the Trust giving the later care (and there was no agreement in place to provide that care) then the cost of the later - emergency - care falls onto the initial provider. If the first treatment was overseas it would end up being the patient, or travel insurer. Within the UK the private hospital or ultimately the private healthcare insurance company would have to pick up the bill.
This would increase the cost of private healthcare insurance (small violin) and travel insurance but it potentially puts a big chunk of money into the NHS.
@MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Probably not a bad idea then
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The NHS effectively subsidises private health care by picking up the pieces when patients become too ill for the private clinics/hospitals to deal with.
The Centre for Health & the Public Interest finds up to 6,000 patients a year are transferred from private to NHS facilities due to complications (& these are only the direct transfers, not those after treatment) costing the NHS at least £250m a year.
The NHS should be (at the very least) paid for these 'rescues'!
@ChrisMayLA6 Problem is mainly with insurance companies because complications after treatment fall back into the category of diagnosis. Insurance policies for health are often "treatment only" or "diagnosis + treatment" so if your policy is the former insurance companies will expect the #nhs to pick up all the work of diagnosis, whilst treatment will be transferred to private. Any complications and it's back to diagnosis, means back to NHS. Patient gets treated like a tennis ball back and forth.
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@MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Perhaps such situations could be avoided if a rule was introduced along the lines that if a patient is not in a condition to leave hospital and no longer require significant care then the initial clinic is responsible for all care and treatment and associated costs. The NHS could then bill private clinics who shove patients on them for incomplete care and treatment costs.
@alex_p_roe @MikeFromLFE @ChrisMayLA6 Totally - the original provider should bear the costs of the whole care. It would probably make private care costs soar, but then if this is what is costs, then fair enough.
I mean, an alternative would be that patients who initially had private care were at the very end of the list, everyone else taking priority. Meaning some of them would die. Meaning they might think twice.
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@alex_p_roe @ChrisMayLA6
As much as the NHS 'internal market' is an abomination the existing mechanism could be used for both transferred patients from private care and for medical tourism.If the initial treatment wasn't provided for by the Trust giving the later care (and there was no agreement in place to provide that care) then the cost of the later - emergency - care falls onto the initial provider. If the first treatment was overseas it would end up being the patient, or travel insurer. Within the UK the private hospital or ultimately the private healthcare insurance company would have to pick up the bill.
This would increase the cost of private healthcare insurance (small violin) and travel insurance but it potentially puts a big chunk of money into the NHS.
Good point; use the NHS privatisation agenda against the private sector; I'm liking this sort of jujitsu politics
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Well, I hope you never suffer complications after treatment - equally, no-one is saying public health provision is without its problems (but they do actually have to sort them out, unlike private providers who merely pass their problem patients on)
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Maybe, maybe not - I would maintain there is a lot of difference between elective & necessary treatment(s).... medical tourism might be OK for the former, but fir the latter seems like a risky proposition
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i think in the medium term a consistently underperforming facility that was injuring or killing patents would be shut-down here, but I'm not sure how quick that might be
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Good point; use the NHS privatisation agenda against the private sector; I'm liking this sort of jujitsu politics
@ChrisMayLA6 @MikeFromLFE @alex_p_roe The problem with NHS billing for things is it's an expensive burden to do & would need extra steps - eg when admitting someone finding out if they were a "billable" case, then logging everything spent on their care.
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