I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack.
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@knowprose @dangillmor What's the alternative to Stripe? PayPal, Bitcoin et. al., surely not.
@vk6flab @dangillmor there's the question.
Uncomfortable, ain't it?
I can't use any of them where I am.
Maybe that's why it's not inconvenient for me to ask.
Demonizing a content platform just tries to put a platform out of business so people go elsewhere. It's doing someone's job for them.
Meanwhile, the people that are the problem just start their own platform and use Stripe. Again.
Moving the problem is not the same as solving it.
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@benroyce @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
no perfect answer but imo "connections" is not enough. this is what most of the fedi gets wrong re refusing to federate with servers with users with bad opinions. moderate unwanted tagging harshly like we do spam, but allow chosen connections like we do browsing.
more meaningful concerns are funding and promotion. Substack both has a financial relationship and chooses to spread the ideas of shitty people. avoiding paying taxes for wars would be nice.
@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
william you're responding to an account that purposefully seeks out, mocks, and goads vatniks into saying things i can report them on to get them suspended
nuke all vatnik accounts
and any server that won't nuke them, nuke the server
period
it's not "bad opinions" william
it's malicious assholes vomiting kremlin lies for ethnofascism and imperialism
someone who says "avoiding paying taxes for wars would be nice" should be able to get behind that need
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@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
william you're responding to an account that purposefully seeks out, mocks, and goads vatniks into saying things i can report them on to get them suspended
nuke all vatnik accounts
and any server that won't nuke them, nuke the server
period
it's not "bad opinions" william
it's malicious assholes vomiting kremlin lies for ethnofascism and imperialism
someone who says "avoiding paying taxes for wars would be nice" should be able to get behind that need
@benroyce @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
we strongly disagree re doing this but we both know this. probably not worth debating it again.
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
Why use Substack, when Ghost is right there...
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor
@jaykuo
maybe move over to beehive? -
@benroyce @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
we strongly disagree re doing this but we both know this. probably not worth debating it again.
@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
indeed i consider your position naive at best
bigots and prideful ignorants have zero place on the fediverse
any server that won't act on them needs to be excised from the fediverse
i cannot fathom why you don't understand that this imperative is the bedrock of the ethos of a community you enjoy being part of, while not understanding what it takes to protect that community
if shitwits want to vomit their hate somewhere, they have twitter. fuck them
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@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
indeed i consider your position naive at best
bigots and prideful ignorants have zero place on the fediverse
any server that won't act on them needs to be excised from the fediverse
i cannot fathom why you don't understand that this imperative is the bedrock of the ethos of a community you enjoy being part of, while not understanding what it takes to protect that community
if shitwits want to vomit their hate somewhere, they have twitter. fuck them
@benroyce @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
the fedi should be as open as the internet and as protective as email with spam blocking software. this best balances interactions we each decide we want with helping everyone avoid those they don't want. my community includes my family members who have opinions I hate. your prescription is a very small fedi that feeds groupthink. see how Dems and the further left vehemently disagree re Gaza and so many other issues.
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@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
indeed i consider your position naive at best
bigots and prideful ignorants have zero place on the fediverse
any server that won't act on them needs to be excised from the fediverse
i cannot fathom why you don't understand that this imperative is the bedrock of the ethos of a community you enjoy being part of, while not understanding what it takes to protect that community
if shitwits want to vomit their hate somewhere, they have twitter. fuck them
@benroyce @wjmaggos@liberal.city @abhayakara I'm not sure why you're taking this out of the thread, I don't think anyone was suggesting a like of bigots or wanting to give a voice here.
I'm certain there's businesses you use daily that still use Twitter, have you dropped them all?
Like I said it's an imperfect world, I don't use substack for the reasons you're arguing, the same reason I don't use Facebook or Twitter, I can't stand the people who run or are on those platforms.
That said it's impossible to divorce yourself of every platform tied to a shitty person, you do the best you can and move on with your life.
No one in that thread was advocating turning the fediverse into a cesspool, if anything he was trying to determine his best path forward which at least shows some forethought.
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@benroyce @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
the fedi should be as open as the internet and as protective as email with spam blocking software. this best balances interactions we each decide we want with helping everyone avoid those they don't want. my community includes my family members who have opinions I hate. your prescription is a very small fedi that feeds groupthink. see how Dems and the further left vehemently disagree re Gaza and so many other issues.
@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
if you define excluding bigoty as "groupthink" i am disgusted
and fuck your family member
you want to have fruitless discussions with racist uncle at the dinner table have at it
not here
your "standard" will not apply to the fediverse. your "standard" fucking sucks. it's a gateway for bad faith hateful sadism
that you don't understand that is shameful
we're not having it
you need to make peace with this william: you're not going to win this argument
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@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
if you define excluding bigoty as "groupthink" i am disgusted
and fuck your family member
you want to have fruitless discussions with racist uncle at the dinner table have at it
not here
your "standard" will not apply to the fediverse. your "standard" fucking sucks. it's a gateway for bad faith hateful sadism
that you don't understand that is shameful
we're not having it
you need to make peace with this william: you're not going to win this argument
@benroyce I'm not going to engage with someone who engages this way. Enjoy your stay on the fediverse.
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@benroyce I'm not going to engage with someone who engages this way. Enjoy your stay on the fediverse.
he's usually less aggressive in arguing this view. -
I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
Kkottke.org @kottke.org
Hey, look at Substack promoting Andrew Tate as the #1 new bestseller. The company's amoral leadership & backers will platform anyone, even ludicrously toxic rapists & human traffickers.
New Bestsellers
See all
Andrew Tate
Rick Perlstein Rickipedia
Wajeeh Lion
Hillary Kerr Hi Everyone with Hillary Kerr. -
I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
@dangillmor How the far right attack on reproductive rights went global. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWOnUaY4XY4
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he's usually less aggressive in arguing this view.
you don't have to argue on my behalf. if someone comes in with some easy outrage then the instablock, fuck them. it's insincere and has no meaning
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@wjmaggos @abhayakara @TheStoneDonkey
if you define excluding bigoty as "groupthink" i am disgusted
and fuck your family member
you want to have fruitless discussions with racist uncle at the dinner table have at it
not here
your "standard" will not apply to the fediverse. your "standard" fucking sucks. it's a gateway for bad faith hateful sadism
that you don't understand that is shameful
we're not having it
you need to make peace with this william: you're not going to win this argument
except "bad people" do change and I have had information shared with me by them that corrected my misunderstandings. doesn't your electoral strategy involve voting in the general for people we may find repugnant but still better than the other person who would otherwise win?
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
No wonder there is so much hatred of women and girls with this bigot at the top of the reading list.
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except "bad people" do change and I have had information shared with me by them that corrected my misunderstandings. doesn't your electoral strategy involve voting in the general for people we may find repugnant but still better than the other person who would otherwise win?
bigots can change but they rarely do
last time we had this discussion you linked to daryl davis as well. i responded as i will now: i admire daryl but daryl is an extreme outlier
we're not here to provide therapy for bigots
people here want to converse without bigotry polluting their timeline
you've decided unilaterally that *your* quixotic goal of curing bigots is what should be here
no
open a twitter account and tilt at windmills there
we're not having it here
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I understand but lament the choice so many thoughtful people have made to publish their newsletters on the odious Substack. Surely they recognize that they are, at least indirectly, helping some of the worst people in the world spread and monetize malignant views.
I don't think they do. Timothy Freaking Snyder remains on substack FFS.
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bigots can change but they rarely do
last time we had this discussion you linked to daryl davis as well. i responded as i will now: i admire daryl but daryl is an extreme outlier
we're not here to provide therapy for bigots
people here want to converse without bigotry polluting their timeline
you've decided unilaterally that *your* quixotic goal of curing bigots is what should be here
no
open a twitter account and tilt at windmills there
we're not having it here
that's not my goal. it's a place where we can all talk to whoever we want and avoid who we want. you seem to think you know who should be let in and who shouldn't. haven't I seen many here don't like you supporting voting for Dems cause the party isn't left enough? you'll get voted off the island eventually.
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it's not that complicated
andrew tate is a piece of shit
that substack platforms him is repugnant enough for many people that they just won't use substack
some won't care. well, fuck them
some worry that the air they breathe contains some molecules that were once also breathed by stalin, so they'll stop breathing. yeah these people are a bit much: you follow coherent connections, and apply pressure where it is worth it
it's a balance in life, always
I don't think we disagree about Andrew Tate. My question is, what specifically are they doing to platform him? Like, did they incentivize him to post on substack? If so, that's a good argument against using substack.
Right now I see them treating him neutrally, which I don't love, but again, so does Comcast (or my ISP, Odido). Should I quit Odido?
So I'm asking, what specifically are they doing. I'm asking because I haven't found a clear answer by searching.
