Am I allowed to share this story?
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@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae this is such bullshit
In 1884 the first Yemenites settled in Silwan and for 45 years lived peacefully and on very good terms with their Arab neighbors. It seemed that the people of Silwan, which was known to be a poor village, found common ground with the poor Jewish Yemenites that lived among them.
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Oh please, you take one example and generalize (+ you could give the source when you quote an article). And you give only one part of the story. Even Wikipedia is more nuanced than that.
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@hiphopheaven
You’re also mistaken. ‘Semitic’ refers to languages, not peoples. It was 19th-century racists who invented the idea of ‘Semitic peoples.’ In the 1930s, Arab ambassadors even asked the Nazis if they were targeted by ‘antisemitism’, and the Nazis explicitly said no. (Source: "Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World", Jeffrey Herf, 2009.) So stop twisting the term: antisemitism has always meant structural discrimination against Jews—and only Jews. Arabophobia and Islamophobia exist separately; there’s no reason to co-opt the term except to delegitimize Jews. And that…@vinteuil_ltp yes i know it refer to a group of language therefore both Palestinians and israelis are semetic by language . When arab took control of the land there was no major progrom that means many ethnically jews was simply converted to Israel and was Arabized. Both people are descendent of the Cananites
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Oh please, you take one example and generalize (+ you could give the source when you quote an article). And you give only one part of the story. Even Wikipedia is more nuanced than that.
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae my source is israeli not a random wikipedia page
The Jewish Yemenite Settlement in Silwan
In the late 19th century, Jewish Yemenites moved to live in the Arab village of Silwan. Nowadays, among many parties, specifically right-wingers and settlers,…
Emek Shave (emekshaveh.org)
fact is the region was pretty stable until the European colonizer came and forced a state on the local population with ethenic cleansing
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Would you have preferred they died in the gas chambers?
No I preferred that they lived in peace with Palestinians instead of ethnically cleansing Palestinians to create a state. Palestinians has nothing to do with Hitler and in fact fought along the allies against the axis. It is so disgusting that you want to make me look like I support genociding jews when israel is the one right now genociding palestinians and talking about greater Israel
@hiphopheaven I totally recognize Israel is genociding Palestinians right now. But you totally idealize history. There were pogroms in Palestine too. Peace needs to be created, and it supposes to work for that.
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@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae my source is israeli not a random wikipedia page
The Jewish Yemenite Settlement in Silwan
In the late 19th century, Jewish Yemenites moved to live in the Arab village of Silwan. Nowadays, among many parties, specifically right-wingers and settlers,…
Emek Shave (emekshaveh.org)
fact is the region was pretty stable until the European colonizer came and forced a state on the local population with ethenic cleansing
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae You know Wikipedia has sources too. That's just cherry-picking.
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae You know Wikipedia has sources too. That's just cherry-picking.
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Yeah, the region was stable: Jews were discriminated and ghettoized, and sometimes, a pogrom was taking place. No equal rights.
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@hiphopheaven I totally recognize Israel is genociding Palestinians right now. But you totally idealize history. There were pogroms in Palestine too. Peace needs to be created, and it supposes to work for that.
@vinteuil_ltp i am not idolizing the history Arab definitely did wrong things and war crimes but it doesn't change the fact that Israel is the settler colonial power who want to expend in country they signed a peace deal with today. Peace won't happen until Israel recognize that occupation will only cause more violence. PA recognize israel and stopped attacking it so what should happen is for israel to slowly remove the colonies in the west bank and let PA deal with Hamas if it don't surrender
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@vinteuil_ltp i am not idolizing the history Arab definitely did wrong things and war crimes but it doesn't change the fact that Israel is the settler colonial power who want to expend in country they signed a peace deal with today. Peace won't happen until Israel recognize that occupation will only cause more violence. PA recognize israel and stopped attacking it so what should happen is for israel to slowly remove the colonies in the west bank and let PA deal with Hamas if it don't surrender
@hiphopheaven We totally agree on that
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Yeah, the region was stable: Jews were discriminated and ghettoized, and sometimes, a pogrom was taking place. No equal rights.
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae many other minorities faced discrimination even arab revolted against the ottoman because of it
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@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae many other minorities faced discrimination even arab revolted against the ottoman because of it
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Yeah, sure. And? Does this mean that because other ones suffer, everyone must accept suffering and not complaining?
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Yeah, sure. And? Does this mean that because other ones suffer, everyone must accept suffering and not complaining?
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae no, just like black people in the usa they fought for their right instead of declaring a black dominent state within the USA. You should know that there was jews who believed in that way rather than creating a state by mass displacing people back then too
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@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae no, just like black people in the usa they fought for their right instead of declaring a black dominent state within the USA. You should know that there was jews who believed in that way rather than creating a state by mass displacing people back then too
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Man, that's exactly the story of Liberia. And no one cared about the dramatic civil war which took place at the beginning of the 2000s there.
Yes, I perfectly know there were Jews who were thinking that, especially the Bund. The problem is that they finished in the gas chambers. That's exactly why history is useful: we learn what kind of emancipation strategies don't work, even if they are more attractive.
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@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Man, that's exactly the story of Liberia. And no one cared about the dramatic civil war which took place at the beginning of the 2000s there.
Yes, I perfectly know there were Jews who were thinking that, especially the Bund. The problem is that they finished in the gas chambers. That's exactly why history is useful: we learn what kind of emancipation strategies don't work, even if they are more attractive.
@vinteuil_ltp it was impossible to evacuate all jews from Germany. So many jews had no choice but to fight in Germany . In other countries non aligned with Germany they would not been gassed, they could have demanded better condition with no mass murder. As history showed us arabs population and jewish population lived together. Even during arab massacres of jews post zionism movement there are other arabs did protect their neighbors and limited the causalities.
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@rae à l'origine c'était un slogan sioniste. C'est peut-être ça qui les met autant en rage.+
@ayl_ : it still is (https://todon.nl/@ErikvanStraten/116250540621135939)
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Am I allowed to share this story?
"police informed him that people who shared a photo of the banner on social media could also be in breach of the prohibited expression laws."
Queensland police raid Christian organisation over pro-Palestine banner
Officers raid Dorothy Day House in Greenslopes over a banner with the slogan "From the River to the Sea", which is now a prohibited expression in Queensland.
(www.abc.net.au)
@rae it's time the Palestinians had a fair go.
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@vinteuil_ltp it was impossible to evacuate all jews from Germany. So many jews had no choice but to fight in Germany . In other countries non aligned with Germany they would not been gassed, they could have demanded better condition with no mass murder. As history showed us arabs population and jewish population lived together. Even during arab massacres of jews post zionism movement there are other arabs did protect their neighbors and limited the causalities.
@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
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@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
@hiphopheaven I am totally sure you are good willing and sincere, but you don't understand how much propaganda there is on those topics and how much the Jewish history is unknown.
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@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
@vinteuil_ltp like in every godamn region there is period of times where groups lives together and other time fight each others. You seems to conflate a palestinians, with an arabs with a muslims. The ottoman empire was Turkish not arab for example but most progroms are blamed on the palestinians. Those progroms are weaponized to justify the colonisation of Palestinian land. Some progrom also targetted jews and other groups at same time. Who tooks some jews after the reconquista for example?
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@vinteuil_ltp like in every godamn region there is period of times where groups lives together and other time fight each others. You seems to conflate a palestinians, with an arabs with a muslims. The ottoman empire was Turkish not arab for example but most progroms are blamed on the palestinians. Those progroms are weaponized to justify the colonisation of Palestinian land. Some progrom also targetted jews and other groups at same time. Who tooks some jews after the reconquista for example?
@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms. -
@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms.@vinteuil_ltp jews are not safer with Israel. I don't know the percentage but israel definitly contribute to antisemetism. Zionists killed multiple jews like Jacob Israel de haan, the israeli police beat up anti zionism jews in Israel, they call jews against colonization self hated jews. You can repeat how jews was oppressed which is true all you want, it doesn't change the fact israel was created by ethenic cleansing of palestinians and was the only way since jews land was disperced all over
