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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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Bonjour!

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  • c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC c0debabe@masto.hackers.town

    Bonjour! I am learning French. I'm at the very beginning and learning pronouns. What is the most common way to denote "nonbinary" in French?

    Update -- top suggestions so far are:
    - iel
    - ael

    alice@gts.void.dogA This user is from outside of this forum
    alice@gts.void.dogA This user is from outside of this forum
    alice@gts.void.dog
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    @c0debabe the most common nb pronoun i have encountered so far is 'iel'. technically 'on' also counts but its less personal (mainly passive voice). 'ça' can be used in the same way as 'it'

    eramdam@social.erambert.meE 1 Reply Last reply
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    • alice@gts.void.dogA alice@gts.void.dog

      @c0debabe the most common nb pronoun i have encountered so far is 'iel'. technically 'on' also counts but its less personal (mainly passive voice). 'ça' can be used in the same way as 'it'

      eramdam@social.erambert.meE This user is from outside of this forum
      eramdam@social.erambert.meE This user is from outside of this forum
      eramdam@social.erambert.me
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      @alice @c0debabe yeah, the "annoying" part of 'iel' is that, because it's fairly new/not "official" you *will* run into people who have no idea it exists and it becomes awkward (even more than using the singular 'they' in English =_=)

      c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC alice@gts.void.dogA 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC c0debabe@masto.hackers.town

        Bonjour! I am learning French. I'm at the very beginning and learning pronouns. What is the most common way to denote "nonbinary" in French?

        Update -- top suggestions so far are:
        - iel
        - ael

        adzetko@rivals.spaceA This user is from outside of this forum
        adzetko@rivals.spaceA This user is from outside of this forum
        adzetko@rivals.space
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        @c0debabe in terms of non-binary pronouns, we had to invent what is often considered as a neopronoun, "iel", which is a middle ground between "il" (masculine) and "'elle" (feminine). Some people prefer to use "ael", which isn't a mix between masc and fem, so it often fit better to people feeling outside of that duality.

        Important thing to consider: this is purely a subjective approach I have there, it's based on the non-binary people I know and how they use their pronouns, it's absolutely not something set in stone.

        c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC c0debabe@masto.hackers.town

          Bonjour! I am learning French. I'm at the very beginning and learning pronouns. What is the most common way to denote "nonbinary" in French?

          Update -- top suggestions so far are:
          - iel
          - ael

          siph@meemu.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
          siph@meemu.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
          siph@meemu.org
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          @c0debabe the most common non-binary pronoun is iel (combination of il and elle) and for adjective termination, you'll most often see the masculine and feminine terminations joined together with an interpunkt (point médian)

          e.g. : iel est mignon•ne

          this is called "écriture inclusive", you should be able to find resources looking for that. Be aware that non-binary awareness and acceptance is very low outside of queer circles and that you might get told that this is incorrect or improper.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • eramdam@social.erambert.meE eramdam@social.erambert.me

            @alice @c0debabe yeah, the "annoying" part of 'iel' is that, because it's fairly new/not "official" you *will* run into people who have no idea it exists and it becomes awkward (even more than using the singular 'they' in English =_=)

            c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC This user is from outside of this forum
            c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC This user is from outside of this forum
            c0debabe@masto.hackers.town
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            @eramdam I do not expect it would be easy. It's a living language we're going through. Just trying to figure out what the community is pushing for so I can help. 🙂

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC c0debabe@masto.hackers.town

              Bonjour! I am learning French. I'm at the very beginning and learning pronouns. What is the most common way to denote "nonbinary" in French?

              Update -- top suggestions so far are:
              - iel
              - ael

              beandreams@friendhole.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
              beandreams@friendhole.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
              beandreams@friendhole.social
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              @c0debabe @onepict Fellow second-language learner perspective here. My local french immersion school most commonly uses iel as a nonbinary pronoun, but kids still have to choose masc or fem agreements for other words. "Iel est une petite enfant" or "iel est un petit enfant". I know at least one nonbinary bilingual kid who uses ul as a pronoun

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • adzetko@rivals.spaceA adzetko@rivals.space

                @c0debabe in terms of non-binary pronouns, we had to invent what is often considered as a neopronoun, "iel", which is a middle ground between "il" (masculine) and "'elle" (feminine). Some people prefer to use "ael", which isn't a mix between masc and fem, so it often fit better to people feeling outside of that duality.

                Important thing to consider: this is purely a subjective approach I have there, it's based on the non-binary people I know and how they use their pronouns, it's absolutely not something set in stone.

                c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC This user is from outside of this forum
                c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC This user is from outside of this forum
                c0debabe@masto.hackers.town
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                @adzetko thank you for chiming in! I do not expect it would be easy. It's a living language we're going through. Just trying to figure out what the community is pushing for so I can help. 🙂

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • eramdam@social.erambert.meE eramdam@social.erambert.me

                  @alice @c0debabe yeah, the "annoying" part of 'iel' is that, because it's fairly new/not "official" you *will* run into people who have no idea it exists and it becomes awkward (even more than using the singular 'they' in English =_=)

                  alice@gts.void.dogA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alice@gts.void.dogA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alice@gts.void.dog
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  @eramdam @c0debabe yea. quick way to detect transphobes and misogynists and stuck up académiciens (as in, académie française).
                  now im at it, i think 'ael'/'æl' is also used but i cant tell if i made it up for me or if its common lol

                  claire@social.sitedethib.comC 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • alice@gts.void.dogA alice@gts.void.dog

                    @eramdam @c0debabe yea. quick way to detect transphobes and misogynists and stuck up académiciens (as in, académie française).
                    now im at it, i think 'ael'/'æl' is also used but i cant tell if i made it up for me or if its common lol

                    claire@social.sitedethib.comC This user is from outside of this forum
                    claire@social.sitedethib.comC This user is from outside of this forum
                    claire@social.sitedethib.com
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    @alice @eramdam @c0debabe ael is relatively common too afaict, a little less than iel though

                    eramdam@social.erambert.meE 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • claire@social.sitedethib.comC claire@social.sitedethib.com

                      @alice @eramdam @c0debabe ael is relatively common too afaict, a little less than iel though

                      eramdam@social.erambert.meE This user is from outside of this forum
                      eramdam@social.erambert.meE This user is from outside of this forum
                      eramdam@social.erambert.me
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      @Claire @alice @c0debabe i never heard of ael but granted i dont interact with a lot of francophones these days outside of Fedi lmao

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • c0debabe@masto.hackers.townC c0debabe@masto.hackers.town

                        Bonjour! I am learning French. I'm at the very beginning and learning pronouns. What is the most common way to denote "nonbinary" in French?

                        Update -- top suggestions so far are:
                        - iel
                        - ael

                        tournesol@peculiar.floristT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tournesol@peculiar.floristT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tournesol@peculiar.florist
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        @c0debabe everybody helped but I wanted to note how even with non-binary pronouns, the real problem is that the language is gendered so it's a conscious effort to choose a gender to conjugate your words…
                        so you should take into account what gender the person would prefer you to use with the pronoun

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