About trans rights:
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@cstross I would generalise it’s not just oligarchs who think rights are for the rich.
There’s a lot of middle-class and working-class authoritarians our there, who think rights are for the in-group only.
I would go even further, and think of the authoritarian personality, whose unit of action is submission & obedience.
It’s not just coming from above, it’s coming from below, too. People seeing the world order through dominance, also exist in the lower classes.
Fear drives it.
@gimulnautti
Here's a good overview -
>I've not met a single person who was not disgusted.
For the abovementioned reasons. But there's a reason why "it's not pedofilia, but ephebophilia!" is such a meme.
I'm not going to go into this further: even writing this much feels disgusting.
>Companies are irrelevant here, they're not people.
Well, they're hierarchial communities. That's what the "company" originally means. Again, not going into this further.
You may disregard me, if you wish.
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@normjess Yep! I was also speaking in the now. There are stories that come out of states with bathroom bans, of cis women having cops barging in and throwing them out. Mostly queer women who reject gender norms, but it can happen to any woman who doesn't fit an arbitrary appearance standard.
And not all that long ago, we had Imane Khelif.
@solitha right now we have at least two states with lists of the transgender people which will at minimum be used to make them all second class citizens and at work be used to round them all up
one where drag is an arrest-able offense and will be used to arrest trans people
I live in the UK, but in many ways more transphobic and in no need of such harmful ideas
Rowling hates Khelif because she's a black woman who doesn't fit beauty standards. its not about her fucking genes
even if she has unusual genes, if you get advantage from it, that's the kind of amazing thing that should be on display at the Olympics
but she has a vagina, grew up socialized as a woman, so these people have insane standards for womanhood that 90% of women won't pass
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross Well, personally, I don't think "rights" exist as anything other than a narrative tool that attempts to legitimize the use of state power and in that sense are pure ideology that re-routes liberatory efforts back into a captive mindset. I can certainly understand why one would pursue such protections if they were a truly existing protection for people but at this point I can only see "rights" - trans or otherwise -as a red herring.
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@staringatclouds @Photo55 @cstross No joke, that's exactly why. For example, the only reason there's a separate women's league in chess is because male grandmasters didn't like how they kept getting defeated by women.
@Legit_Spaghetti @staringatclouds @Photo55 @cstross Is that the historical reason? Do you have a source for that? Is there currently a top league that is closed to women?
Right now all top tournaments and the German leagues are open to women. I don't know about others.
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@cstross I will admit, I find some of this stuff to be unsettling, but I also think that I have no right to control such things nor does anyone else.
If people want to be trans for example, that isn't my right to control.
No one should get in the way of this.
Not only does it serve nothing worthwhile but humans should be able to decide what they want to be.
And for those conservative nutcases, they should be aware that some people will stick to their beliefs no matter what.
They should know about this given their delusional beliefs of supporting a tyrant and denying reality so much.
Trying to stop people from being who they want to be permanently especially is like trying to make water not wet.
it just aint going to happen.
Btw, I fully expect some people from different beliefs to find my various beliefs strange.
i also heard it said that 20% of people will always be at odds with you.
So there's that.@skedarwarrior @cstross your beliefs aren't strange. There are heaps of ignorant libertarians around.
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@cstross Would it be okay to link to this from BlueSky?
It's an important issue but certainly not my place to post the link elsewhere.@FourQ Yes, it's okay to do that. (I'm on bsky too: @cstross.bsky.social. Posted this here because it's too long for a single bsky message.)
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@cstross I would generalise it’s not just oligarchs who think rights are for the rich.
There’s a lot of middle-class and working-class authoritarians our there, who think rights are for the in-group only.
I would go even further, and think of the authoritarian personality, whose unit of action is submission & obedience.
It’s not just coming from above, it’s coming from below, too. People seeing the world order through dominance, also exist in the lower classes.
Fear drives it.
@gimulnautti See also the writings of the late Bob Altermayer.
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@FourQ Yes, it's okay to do that. (I'm on bsky too: @cstross.bsky.social. Posted this here because it's too long for a single bsky message.)
@cstross Thanks Charlie. The character limit can be frustrating sometimes. Other times a downright bloody nuisance.
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@cstross
Transphobes should stop using semiconductors, especially ARM chips:
https://mstdn.social/@JohnMashey/109882464505602795@JohnMashey in honor of Wendy Carlos they should also boycott electronic music.
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross It's all hate redirection. It's easier to blame some invisible bogeyman, rather than uniting against the visible people in power.
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@Legit_Spaghetti @cstross the sports issue is a good example of something that both does not matter and really does. Because to the average person who doesn't care that much about who wins in sports, it doesn't really make sense to fight for it either way. It's just a game, right? So even those who support trans people and view us as the genders we are probably don't care that much about our right to compete in sports with other people of our gender. They don't see that it's just step 1.
@raphaelmorgan @Legit_Spaghetti @cstross
I mean, playing sport has a range of benefits, health, community, etc; kicking people out of sport is real harm -
About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
It is a wedge issue and a manufactured moral panic, exactly like the gay panic and satanic panic of the 80s, and the so-called "international Jewry" of the 30s.
It always boils down to racists and fascists using an out group as a scapegoat to justify the greater horrors that are to come.
And now in the US we see an example of at least one state who wants to create a list of every Jew in the state, after others started justifying and compiling lists of trans people.
I have been saying for years, that we know how this starts!
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross The #CultureWars are a distraction from the real problems: rapidly rising #inequality & a diminished democracy, ruled by #bigtech. These #techbros rather have #fascism with no restrictions on their business than a democracy with #privacy laws & consumer protection.
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross the only positive thing in all this horrible mess is that fascists always first jump on trans people.
So it is really easy to identify the oppressors. -
@cstross I will admit, I find some of this stuff to be unsettling, but I also think that I have no right to control such things nor does anyone else.
If people want to be trans for example, that isn't my right to control.
No one should get in the way of this.
Not only does it serve nothing worthwhile but humans should be able to decide what they want to be.
And for those conservative nutcases, they should be aware that some people will stick to their beliefs no matter what.
They should know about this given their delusional beliefs of supporting a tyrant and denying reality so much.
Trying to stop people from being who they want to be permanently especially is like trying to make water not wet.
it just aint going to happen.
Btw, I fully expect some people from different beliefs to find my various beliefs strange.
i also heard it said that 20% of people will always be at odds with you.
So there's that.@skedarwarrior @cstross
You find it unsettling because you have it backwards. Nobody wants to be trans.You list yourself as christian, so I'll use the word "soul", where I would otherwise use other terminology, because that might work better in your world view.
A class mate of mine had a sister who was born with six fingers on each hand. She had surgery to remove the extra fingers, likely before she even remembers. That's just how nature works. Sometimes people grow body parts that are not meant to be there.
Now let's imagine a god-given perfect soul. A female soul. Unfortunately, there is an imperfection in how her body grows. Just like my classmate's sister grew a couple of extra fingers, this poor girl grows a penis.
Why shouldn't we fix that the same way they did with my classmate's sister's extra fingers?
But instead, bigots insist that when it comes to genitals (their favorite subject), nature must be obeyed, and the god-given soul must be tortured into conforming to a freak accident of nature.
Does this help understanding how the world looks from our side? To make it less unsettling?
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@skedarwarrior @cstross
You find it unsettling because you have it backwards. Nobody wants to be trans.You list yourself as christian, so I'll use the word "soul", where I would otherwise use other terminology, because that might work better in your world view.
A class mate of mine had a sister who was born with six fingers on each hand. She had surgery to remove the extra fingers, likely before she even remembers. That's just how nature works. Sometimes people grow body parts that are not meant to be there.
Now let's imagine a god-given perfect soul. A female soul. Unfortunately, there is an imperfection in how her body grows. Just like my classmate's sister grew a couple of extra fingers, this poor girl grows a penis.
Why shouldn't we fix that the same way they did with my classmate's sister's extra fingers?
But instead, bigots insist that when it comes to genitals (their favorite subject), nature must be obeyed, and the god-given soul must be tortured into conforming to a freak accident of nature.
Does this help understanding how the world looks from our side? To make it less unsettling?
@skedarwarrior @cstross
Oh, one more thing. What you call "unsettling" may just be a glimpse into what we call dysphoria.You hear about transition, and imagine wanting to live in the wrong body. But that's the thing - we already live in the wrong body. To us, transition is fixing the problem.
If you were to transition, you would get dysphoria. We were born with dysphoria and transition to make it go away. That's why it's unsettling to you. Because you imagine transition as changing away from the body that matches your soul, rather than changing it back to match your soul after some freak accident that made it grow the wrong parts.
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@staringatclouds @Photo55 @cstross No joke, that's exactly why. For example, the only reason there's a separate women's league in chess is because male grandmasters didn't like how they kept getting defeated by women.
@Legit_Spaghetti @staringatclouds @cstross
I don't recall that game. If not the players - surely she is a grandmaster - then at least give the opening. Please. -
@Photo55 @Legit_Spaghetti @cstross my unironic hot take on this is all sports should have no restrictions, just objectives. All this arbitrary “for the sportsmanship” nonsense is ridiculous knitting circle committee pablum. If it ain’t against no actual laws and the event insurance covers it then it goes.
@leon
Would you say that is a male view?
Would you argue it was not, if someone else characterised it so?
Does this extend to ages, and to weight classes, present in several sports? Neck injuries are limited by avoiding large mismatches in Rugby, among other clear examples. -
@JohnMashey in honor of Wendy Carlos they should also boycott electronic music.
@moz
Agreed, I enjoyed her albums, long ago.
Of course, people reading social media might not care about that music, but are certainly using semiconductors, hence my mentions. -
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