About trans rights:
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@Legit_Spaghetti @cstross
Why are there women's sports?@Photo55 @Legit_Spaghetti @cstross Because men don't like being beaten by women
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I'm just sad that "this group deserves to exist" is a wedge issue, and not just something most people can agree on
It's been the same damned refrain since the oligarchs in question were romans.
Pick your smallest domestic minority. This could be roma, or homeless people, or disabled people, or morally injured vets, or NGO aid workers.
What's important here is the disparity in power, not the identity in question, since their inability to fight back is what's being singled out.
Villianize them.
Blame them for the shit your doing and don't want to engage in constructive dialogue about.
Abuse your influence over institutions and soft power to co-op others into being your voice.
Get rich while people's backs are turned.
Rinse the money.
Repeat.
This is the structure of power. The "kingdoms and principalities" Jesus refered to.
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@lightuplilly @cstross
yes, because identifying as an attack helicopter could seem funny for a moment, but if you actually have to live with a stupid/inaccurate ID for a long period of time then you are gonna hate it and/or everyone is gonna hate youlook at all the shit people get just for identifying as transgender, a thing that clearly exists
self ID is the right to tell the government who you are. the alternative is they tell you and that always ends with some day you being told you are something you are not
ID has to start with you
if someone wants to be a cat or an alien then, if we are real for a minute, society is going to treat them extraordinarily badly, and it'll be offset only if it brings them deep personal joy
what right do people to tell people they can't change their gender to literally anything?
what do they know about living it?
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
A wedge issue is something people vehemently disagree on, that won't affect the bottom line of big business one way or the other. Basically a politician's wet dream. You being right doesn't matter. Only whether you cannot reconcile with the people who disagree with you, and whether or not the end result is going to make rich people richer more slowly.
So I talk about human rights, and just redirect people who insist that trans rights are someow being made special by the evil communists back to talking about human rights. I don't know that it's a solution though. There might be no way to resist being controlled and turned against each other via wedge issues.
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@liohn no they are not
men don't have sex changes, take hormones to grow breasts
those are not requirements to be trans, but they are stuff some sports require of trans people
you can, wrongly, that trans women aren't women
but cut your dick off and grow breasts and make it into professional sports, and then you can explain to me how you're a man
furthermore, the whole point of the Olympics is to include everyone so we can find the incredible. every nation, every gender
for generations its been built on inclusion but now we draw the line at a naturally occurring type of human being who's walked amongst us for centuries? WHY?
if we can't even do sports, how can we be a part of society?
trans women are not cis men. I get why cis women are scared of them
but we are victims too. we are beaten, raped and murdered proportionate to our population more than cis women, and cis women are being fucking slaughtered right now
cis women are varied, many will be attacked as trans women
that should concern you
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@lightuplilly Tell us you never studied biology beyond primary education without actually telling us.
Gender is MUCH more complex than what we're taught as children. You just betray ignorance of the topic when you flaunt that view.
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@lightuplilly @cstross
born with how?sexual organs are varied, assuming you've seen any in the flesh, and intersex people exist
chromosomes are varied, you cannot prove to me which ones you have. could be XX, XXXX, XXXY, you wouldn't have a fucking clue
taking a quick look when you are born and making that your ID forever is insane. humans make mistakes
try to use your brain, the world is not A and B, that's how a baby thinks
its a complicated mix of elements with nuance for adults
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@lightuplilly Tell us you never studied biology beyond primary education without actually telling us.
Gender is MUCH more complex than what we're taught as children. You just betray ignorance of the topic when you flaunt that view.
@lightuplilly I'll give you some light reading to help.
Genetic testing cannot reveal the gender of your baby − two genetic counselors explain the complexities of sex and gender
Cell-free DNA prenatal screening, sometimes called ‘the gender test,’ cannot determine gender because gender is more than just genes and genitals.
The Conversation (theconversation.com)
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross T. H. I. S.
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@liohn no they are not
men don't have sex changes, take hormones to grow breasts
those are not requirements to be trans, but they are stuff some sports require of trans people
you can, wrongly, that trans women aren't women
but cut your dick off and grow breasts and make it into professional sports, and then you can explain to me how you're a man
furthermore, the whole point of the Olympics is to include everyone so we can find the incredible. every nation, every gender
for generations its been built on inclusion but now we draw the line at a naturally occurring type of human being who's walked amongst us for centuries? WHY?
if we can't even do sports, how can we be a part of society?
trans women are not cis men. I get why cis women are scared of them
but we are victims too. we are beaten, raped and murdered proportionate to our population more than cis women, and cis women are being fucking slaughtered right now
cis women are varied, many will be attacked as trans women
that should concern you
@normjess @liohn "cis women are varied, many will be attacked as trans women"
This is already happening. When we decide there must be arbitrary, obvious signs of who is trans and who is not, the battlefield shifts to appearance. Cis women have already been assaulted, humiliated, and even banned from women's spaces for not being feminine enough.
TERFs are *not* feminists. Trans women are women.
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@normjess @liohn "cis women are varied, many will be attacked as trans women"
This is already happening. When we decide there must be arbitrary, obvious signs of who is trans and who is not, the battlefield shifts to appearance. Cis women have already been assaulted, humiliated, and even banned from women's spaces for not being feminine enough.
TERFs are *not* feminists. Trans women are women.
@solitha yeah, I was speaking in the now
many cis women throughout history have been accused of being trans or men and been attacked for it. its one of the many ways patriarchy maintains western beauty standards, nay white supremacy
people burned "witches" as a way of policing women
many transphobes are cis women who police other women instead of fighting the violence against women and girls done by cis men
they call themselves "feminist" but were unbothered by losing abortion rights or by the child porn created by AI
or at least they did - a decade ago - for clout
but now culture has shifted rightwards they've abandoned "feminist" label and "gender critical" just means "conservative woman", which it always was in truth
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@solitha yeah, I was speaking in the now
many cis women throughout history have been accused of being trans or men and been attacked for it. its one of the many ways patriarchy maintains western beauty standards, nay white supremacy
people burned "witches" as a way of policing women
many transphobes are cis women who police other women instead of fighting the violence against women and girls done by cis men
they call themselves "feminist" but were unbothered by losing abortion rights or by the child porn created by AI
or at least they did - a decade ago - for clout
but now culture has shifted rightwards they've abandoned "feminist" label and "gender critical" just means "conservative woman", which it always was in truth
@normjess Yep! I was also speaking in the now. There are stories that come out of states with bathroom bans, of cis women having cops barging in and throwing them out. Mostly queer women who reject gender norms, but it can happen to any woman who doesn't fit an arbitrary appearance standard.
And not all that long ago, we had Imane Khelif.
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross I will admit, I find some of this stuff to be unsettling, but I also think that I have no right to control such things nor does anyone else.
If people want to be trans for example, that isn't my right to control.
No one should get in the way of this.
Not only does it serve nothing worthwhile but humans should be able to decide what they want to be.
And for those conservative nutcases, they should be aware that some people will stick to their beliefs no matter what.
They should know about this given their delusional beliefs of supporting a tyrant and denying reality so much.
Trying to stop people from being who they want to be permanently especially is like trying to make water not wet.
it just aint going to happen.
Btw, I fully expect some people from different beliefs to find my various beliefs strange.
i also heard it said that 20% of people will always be at odds with you.
So there's that. -
About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross Would it be okay to link to this from BlueSky?
It's an important issue but certainly not my place to post the link elsewhere. -
@Photo55 @Legit_Spaghetti @cstross Because men don't like being beaten by women
@staringatclouds @Photo55 @cstross No joke, that's exactly why. For example, the only reason there's a separate women's league in chess is because male grandmasters didn't like how they kept getting defeated by women.
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@lightuplilly @normjess @cstross
That's like saying there are 3 states of matter: solid, liquid and gasIn reality, there are dozens, and they just discovered a new one about a decade back
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@lightuplilly @normjess @cstross
That's like saying there are 3 states of matter: solid, liquid and gasIn reality, there are dozens, and they just discovered a new one about a decade back
@sabik @lightuplilly @normjess @cstross there is only hydrogen, helium and delusional deviant elements
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About trans rights:
They're a wedge issue. If you think it's okay to deprive trans people of the right to exist in the public sphere then you're saying human rights are conditional and/or can be withdrawn. Which puts you on a slippery slope to no human rights for anyone.
When you trace the roots of the modern anti-trans movement they boil down to some combination of bigotry and billionaire bullshit— the oligarchs think rights are for the rich.
So: trans-rights are human rights. No exceptions.
@cstross And what is the root of gender identity? I recommend you to see this episode (turn on english subtitle): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfxW_0aIL80
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@lightuplilly @cstross people should just be *allowed* to exist and be whatever they are? I think not. that sounds too much like freedom and we can’t have that in america
