AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
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@jaffathecake @ddelemeny @froztbyte It is dishonest to repeatedly frame your points from the view of marginalized people who did NOT ask you to champion them, and who have an entirely different set of concerns that Mozilla has barely ever recognized or focused on.
If Mozilla actually cared about accessibility, they would focus on accessibility, not scapegoat it as a marketing tool for something else they have decided to do against user wishes.
@reflex @jaffathecake @ddelemeny
> If Mozilla actually cared about accessibilitythe zoomie gif on the post would probably also not have been there
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@davidgerard @duke_of_germany @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs i used to try to assume constructive framing for all arguments like this but since the advent of the slop merchants all bets are off. they are immune to reason because listening to you means they make less money
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@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary what I'm hearing here is "the correct reaction is to harass every single person involved in this debacle until they're too afraid to pull more of this shit"
@whitequark @jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary i would even broaden this to "every person involved in every other debacle just like this happening everywhere at this moment"
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@angelfeast @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany you're getting hung up on a line that was flagged as tongue-in-cheek with an emoji. But yes, I didn't appreciate the comparison, and blocked the person who made it.
@jaffathecake @fasterandworse @duke_of_germany good job not addressing what i was actually saying
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> are you under a directive that explicitly told you not to do that?
No.
> Or perhaps under some implicit kind of situation (e.g. “I know $manager won’t listen”) which made you not even consider that?
No, but a poll that gives me the evidence to say "hey, you know that place that has a strong representation of people who don't like AI? They don't like AI." did not seem like a good use of my time.
@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary
Is that place Mozilla's own bugtracker? This mess started their awhile back.
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@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary
Is that place Mozilla's own bugtracker? This mess started their awhile back.
@fennix I'm not sure what this is in reply to. I think you're asking if Bugzilla is a place to do something in particular, but I'm not sure what.
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@fennix I'm not sure what this is in reply to. I think you're asking if Bugzilla is a place to do something in particular, but I'm not sure what.
Specifically this:
"hey, you know that place that has a strong representation of people who don't like AI? They don't like AI." did not seem like a good use of my time.
When the original LLM chat sidebar feature was being added as automatically-enabled, the issues opened on Mozilla's own bugtracker garnered the largest number of negative replies and comments I've ever seen for anything Mozilla's done.
Attempting to play this off as a mastodon thing is ridiculous and absurd. It ignores all the active and passionate users who promote the browser to people, who make corporate policy such that Firefox has to be installed alongside Chrome, etc.
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@davidgerard @barubary @jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs Something something hard to get a man to understand something...
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Go. Outside. Touch. Grass.
️And blink twice if you need help.
You do not have to write these little "comebacks". Everybody and their dog can see right through them, and they accomplish nothing, other than wasting your personal lifetime.
@duke_of_germany @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Imagine getting 80 brief years on this beautiful marble (if you're lucky) and spending half of it simping for billionaires. Tragic.
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Specifically this:
"hey, you know that place that has a strong representation of people who don't like AI? They don't like AI." did not seem like a good use of my time.
When the original LLM chat sidebar feature was being added as automatically-enabled, the issues opened on Mozilla's own bugtracker garnered the largest number of negative replies and comments I've ever seen for anything Mozilla's done.
Attempting to play this off as a mastodon thing is ridiculous and absurd. It ignores all the active and passionate users who promote the browser to people, who make corporate policy such that Firefox has to be installed alongside Chrome, etc.
@fennix to be clear, I'm not playing this off as a mastodon thing. I mean… if my intent was to ignore people here, I've done a pretty bad job of that given I've engaged with people most of today.
My point was that if you run a poll about AI preference on Mastodon, it's pretty obvious what the outcome will be. That doesn't mean it isn't valid, it just means that putting effort into discovering what's already discovered is a misuse of time.
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@Orb2069 @jaffathecake @froztbyte @ddelemeny Only if it's intentional.
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@wojtek @fabio @firefoxwebdevs then why do a survey?
@aburka @fabio @firefoxwebdevs to gauge the interest of particular population and "feelings"?
this profile has less than 5k followers, participation in the survey was probably around that.
Thinking that this would impact the setup for millions of users is kinda… "cute" xD
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@firefoxwebdevs @giacomo
If it presents the option and doesn't say what it's doing that's not informed consent.The "first launch" popups that y'all normally do with a descriptive splash screen and a big button that can be skipped to enable the features in the first place is a *perfect* place to present it where people who do want it will see it
@firefoxwebdevs @giacomo I mean, how good do *you* really believe it is if you think people need to be tricked into trying it?
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@wojtek
Because optIn is better than optOut.@wariat @fabio @firefoxwebdevs
Yes! I know! Firefox, with each update should present a new-tab-page forcing users selecting all new additions. You know - some may not want new JS api! Or CSS adding animations! /s
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@ddelemeny @jaffathecake @froztbyte Why do these creeps routinely weaponize users with accessibility needs to make their case when those users on balance are also *against* this shit?
This is so damn intellectually dishonest. Every time I see it in some AI Bro's socail media thread, youtube comments, etc people who use accessibility tools state definitely to not use them to make their case.
And yet you assholes won't stop. And you get furious when someone supposedly puts words in your mouth!
@reflex @ddelemeny @jaffathecake @froztbyte As a totally blind person I actually find these tools to be useful sometimes. I really don't like having to constantly rely on cited people when I run into accessibility barriers, and I know full well that these models aren't perfect and probably never will be, but it's far better than what we had even a few years ago. I think as long as the models are local and not cloud hosted, I really don't see an issue with this, and the features should be optional and not on by default.
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@reflex @ddelemeny @jaffathecake @froztbyte As a totally blind person I actually find these tools to be useful sometimes. I really don't like having to constantly rely on cited people when I run into accessibility barriers, and I know full well that these models aren't perfect and probably never will be, but it's far better than what we had even a few years ago. I think as long as the models are local and not cloud hosted, I really don't see an issue with this, and the features should be optional and not on by default.
@ZBennoui @reflex @ddelemeny @jaffathecake that's good to read, thanks for posting!
as I said in one of my elsethread posts, I get the thesis of the idea (and can obviously acknowledge it's a step ahead in some dimensions). but I am curious and wish to ask: how do you handle the accuracy problem?
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@reflex @ddelemeny @jaffathecake @froztbyte As a totally blind person I actually find these tools to be useful sometimes. I really don't like having to constantly rely on cited people when I run into accessibility barriers, and I know full well that these models aren't perfect and probably never will be, but it's far better than what we had even a few years ago. I think as long as the models are local and not cloud hosted, I really don't see an issue with this, and the features should be optional and not on by default.
@ZBennoui @ddelemeny @jaffathecake @froztbyte I'm glad it works for you, hopefully they consider your point about opt in vs opt out.
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@wojtek Interesting that you have a Vivaldi.net account, a browser that famously doesn’t include any AI features. Your question is a bit strange in this context, or maybe it’s just a bad attempt at being a contrarian.
@fabio oh! what a great detective work! maybe you should dig some more to find more discrepancies? /s
I have account on vivaldi.net because I was an avid fan Opera (before they switched to chrome and then sell off to china) and when original crew started Vivaldi I got excited but it turned out it's not that great but I still got the account. I didn't use fedi all that much (tbh I started using it more only a couple of months back) but I already had an account on vivaldi so I stuck with that because "it just works".
Now, how on earth one could draw conclussion on personal perspective based only on an account domain is beyond me xDDDDD
I guess this can come only from "brave fighters" that see world black and white so in my case I should eradicate Vivaldi and this account from my computer because I wasn't completely "anti-AI"? xDDD -
@ZBennoui @reflex @ddelemeny @jaffathecake that's good to read, thanks for posting!
as I said in one of my elsethread posts, I get the thesis of the idea (and can obviously acknowledge it's a step ahead in some dimensions). but I am curious and wish to ask: how do you handle the accuracy problem?
@froztbyte @reflex @ddelemeny @jaffathecake I handle it with common sense really. I don't trust the output 100 percent for anything critical, but many of the newer models (like Google's Gemini3) have gotten so good that it's really not as much of an issue as it used to be. Also understanding how these LLMs are trained and what specific situations they were designed to be used in helps a lot. It will probably never be perfect, but frankly no technology is.
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@fabio @wojtek it does include translation, which people consider to be AI https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115849251057488746. It even sends the text off-device to be translated, whereas Firefox does it on-device for privacy.
@jaffathecake @fabio true that… and "2,977 people" voted…
