AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
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@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Alright, but if the models are light enough to download on demand, then having such an aggressive warning on the opt out seems even more alarmist.
@ainmosni right, but the block may be deleting lots of models. I get what you're saying, but some features are in a bit of a grey area here, such as translation, so it seems reasonable to double check.
I expect we'll still get bug reports about translation being missing and users not understanding why, but having the controls is worth it imo.
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard mate you directly said I was portraying people here as crazies. I see why you'd want to try and wriggle out of that, but your message is right there.
To make one thing clear: I am not your mate, Jake.
By now, I am just a guy wondering what you are trying to achieve here, using both your work- and private account, working hard to alienate ex-Firefox-fans.
If this is your actual job: I feel sorry for you. Honestly. No sarcasm.
If not: for the love of god, go outside, touch grass, pet a dog, call a loved one.
Do literally *anything* except for whatever it is you are doing here. For your own sake.
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@ainmosni right, but the block may be deleting lots of models. I get what you're saying, but some features are in a bit of a grey area here, such as translation, so it seems reasonable to double check.
I expect we'll still get bug reports about translation being missing and users not understanding why, but having the controls is worth it imo.
@firefoxwebdevs I understand, but I still don't understand why it's so much a bigger deal than say turning off history, which would be a much bigger change in behaviour for everyone involved
That said, outside of the FOMO drama-queen-ness of the toggle, I'm happy that it's finally there, it's a start to earn back some trust.
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To make one thing clear: I am not your mate, Jake.
By now, I am just a guy wondering what you are trying to achieve here, using both your work- and private account, working hard to alienate ex-Firefox-fans.
If this is your actual job: I feel sorry for you. Honestly. No sarcasm.
If not: for the love of god, go outside, touch grass, pet a dog, call a loved one.
Do literally *anything* except for whatever it is you are doing here. For your own sake.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard to be clear: I do not consider people here to be crazy. Those are your words. You chose to use those words.
I got involved in this project because of the feedback I received here, and that feedback helped me make a change (https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115859958902197087).
Yes, this is a section of the user-base, one that isn't identical to the whole user-base. You may choose words like 'crazy' to describe them, but I absolutely reject your framing.
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AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
For the full details, see the Firefox blog https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-controls/
@firefoxwebdevs Bullshit generators should be opt-in, not opt-out!
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What Mozilla did:
️What the users actually wanted:
️Duke of Germany 💫 (@duke_of_germany@mastodon.gamedev.place)
Let's ask the real question: Firefox users, do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions? @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social @davidgerard@circumstances.run @tante@tldr.nettime.org #Firefox #InformedConsent [ ] I want AI built into Firefox [ ] I want AI separated into extensions [ ] Mozilla should not focus on AI features at all
Gamedev Mastodon (mastodon.gamedev.place)
@duke_of_germany@mastodon.gamedev.place @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social "users" and its just one poll on a network only used by tech people
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard to be clear: I do not consider people here to be crazy. Those are your words. You chose to use those words.
I got involved in this project because of the feedback I received here, and that feedback helped me make a change (https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115859958902197087).
Yes, this is a section of the user-base, one that isn't identical to the whole user-base. You may choose words like 'crazy' to describe them, but I absolutely reject your framing.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs rarely seen a man so unable to read and understand text
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No, Jake, I am not aware of this, and I do not believe this to be true.
Mastodon users might be special in the way they articulate their opinion, but by no means does this represent a fringe notion.
See for example the links in the reply of @jonny, or the ongoing AI-vote by DuckDuckGo: https://voteyesornoai.com/.
Ask an arbitrary group of people head on if they want genAI directly built into their software, and they will overwhelmingly say "no".
@duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs lol damn, 175k votes, and a 3:1 gather ratio on the other unforced-options poll you ran
that's Some Numbers right there
wonder if they'll listen (wait, no, I don't wonder: https://mastodon.social/@froztbyte/116005140730818539)
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs they're aware of the sentiment. I'm sure you're aware that Mastodon has a high representation of folks who don't like AI, so presenting evidence that Mastodon users don't like AI is kinda… well… not really useful.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
Also I see myself in the comment about it being populated by the kind of people who have been recommending Firefox since before Chrome existed, but are now feeling alienated by Mozilla's decisions.
Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up, or am I going to run Zen?
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
Go. Outside. Touch. Grass.
️And blink twice if you need help.
You do not have to write these little "comebacks". Everybody and their dog can see right through them, and they accomplish nothing, other than wasting your personal lifetime.
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@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
Also I see myself in the comment about it being populated by the kind of people who have been recommending Firefox since before Chrome existed, but are now feeling alienated by Mozilla's decisions.
Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up, or am I going to run Zen?
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
And I'm not angry at you personally, if anything I'm angry on behalf of all the people just trying to make a good browser. At the people who insist on AI in the face of no evidence that current users want it, or that it will realistically win away Chrome users or similar.
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@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
Also I see myself in the comment about it being populated by the kind of people who have been recommending Firefox since before Chrome existed, but are now feeling alienated by Mozilla's decisions.
Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up, or am I going to run Zen?
@davey_cakes @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
> I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
100%. That's why I did the poll here, and used it to push for a change. But I also recognise that is not 100% representative of all users.
> Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up
No, if you use the main block, it applies to new AI features too.
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@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs rarely seen a man so unable to read and understand text
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs fabulous attempt at DARVO in corporate comms Jake, well done
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@davey_cakes @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
> I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
100%. That's why I did the poll here, and used it to push for a change. But I also recognise that is not 100% representative of all users.
> Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up
No, if you use the main block, it applies to new AI features too.
@davey_cakes @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs in the UI's own words:
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Stop portraying Mastodon users as the "anti-AI crazies".
Instead, ask yourself: "What is the relation between Mastodon users & Firefox?"
The answer:
An overwhelming number of Mastodon users used to be your champions.
They are tech people who used to recommend Firefox to the normies in their life. A crowd of mini-influencers, recommending your product.
And I don't understand why you go out of your way to alienate exactly these people.
@duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard
Because they are Mckinsey Heads, who ate all the Neoliberal McKinsey Slop. Time to kick them out of the board.
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AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
For the full details, see the Firefox blog https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-controls/
@firefoxwebdevs How long until an update re-enables all of these settings like you've been doing on the about:config AI related settings?
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@firefoxwebdevs How long until an update re-enables all of these settings like you've been doing on the about:config AI related settings?
@Kiloku about:config is a place for flags and experiments, whereas these are dedicated user settings.
I know that doesn't prove anything, but I don't think proof can be provided in a single reply. The proof will be in respecting this setting over time.
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@Kiloku @duke_of_germany yes, because the audience bias is towards folks more likely to block AI, so it's a great place to ask questions about what they consider to be AI, and how they'd like to use such a feature.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @jaffathecake This is disgusting. You've spent multiple discussion threads ignoring central issue(s) and going off on tangents, focusing on irrelevant details, and just generally avoiding even mentioning the things people are actually concerned about. And now you're trying to turn this around by claiming Duke is avoiding an issue? And putting words in his mouth by claiming he is putting words in your mouth when no such thing happened? All that just to avoid talking about the core issues in this thread?
Are you a professional gaslighter or something?
Before this AI nonsense, I used to recommend (or straight up install) Firefox to friends, acquaintances and family, but I don't think I ever will again. I feel grossed out.
