Greenpeace in 2026 running propaganda for "ban 3D printers" the same way they ran propaganda for "force everyone to use Dupont's new patented refrigerants after the old patents expired" back in the 1990s...
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Greenpeace in 2026 running propaganda for "ban 3D printers" the same way they ran propaganda for "force everyone to use Dupont's new patented refrigerants after the old patents expired" back in the 1990s...
Context: a toot they made blaming "heating up plastics" (talking about microwaving containers but with obvious double meaning at same time fascist governments want to ban 3D printers) as source of "microplastics", "chemicals", and "toxins".
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Context: a toot they made blaming "heating up plastics" (talking about microwaving containers but with obvious double meaning at same time fascist governments want to ban 3D printers) as source of "microplastics", "chemicals", and "toxins".
They have a long, long history of being useful fools serving right-wing agendas and I don't trust them.
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They have a long, long history of being useful fools serving right-wing agendas and I don't trust them.
@dalias I think the term of art is "useful idiot"
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@dalias I think the term of art is "useful idiot"
@soatok Yes but I'm trying to avoid ableist/eugenicist language and "idiot" is associated with that shit.
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@dalias I think the term of art is "useful idiot"
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@soatok Yes but I'm trying to avoid ableist/eugenicist language and "idiot" is associated with that shit.
@soatok And I feel like "useful fools" is more accurate anyway. It's not about being useful by virtue of some innate lack of "intelligence" but by virtue of having been fooled by someone.
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@soatok And I feel like "useful fools" is more accurate anyway. It's not about being useful by virtue of some innate lack of "intelligence" but by virtue of having been fooled by someone.
@dalias Sure, feel free to make a complaint at everyone who writes about propaganda
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@dalias Sure, feel free to make a complaint at everyone who writes about propaganda
@soatok I mean I could, but I'm happy with just using a term I find better and hoping it sticks in common usage. Same way we've gone about replacing a lot of language.
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They have a long, long history of being useful fools serving right-wing agendas and I don't trust them.
@dalias It's sad as a former GP'er & still supporter (on balance I still think they do more good than harm) to have to agree with this - but we often discussed it while I was there & I still talk about it with the friends I made at the time; the tendency to take up purist positions that poison our own well & helps our adversaries...
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They have a long, long history of being useful fools serving right-wing agendas and I don't trust them.
@dalias it doesn't help that their former president is just an industry shill now
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@dalias It's sad as a former GP'er & still supporter (on balance I still think they do more good than harm) to have to agree with this - but we often discussed it while I was there & I still talk about it with the friends I made at the time; the tendency to take up purist positions that poison our own well & helps our adversaries...
@jwcph Yeah, it's complicated. I've known folks in GP over the years too and I don't think they mean bad, but rather often they end up taking positions that somehow help bad people.
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Context: a toot they made blaming "heating up plastics" (talking about microwaving containers but with obvious double meaning at same time fascist governments want to ban 3D printers) as source of "microplastics", "chemicals", and "toxins".
@dalias I agree with Greenpeace on this. Like the other person who responded, I used to work for Greenpeace. Plastic is a horror.
I can't remember any campaigns they've done that were wrong-headed. I still let what I learned canvassing for their dioxin campaign guide my family.
I think we need purists. I try to be a purist myself, under the belief that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem. Nothing that involves victims is acceptable, and we all live in a real life version of the Twilight Zone episode "Button, Button" nowadays.
I'd love to have a 3D printer, but I won't get one because it's all plastic. So instead we collect woodworking tools. The kids use clay for things. Are there things for which a 3D printer would be wildly convenient? Absolutely. But it would be convenient in the way Amazon is convenient or gig economy companies are convenient. In this case, looking for the victims would be particularly easy - my kids would be among them given microplastics pollution.
The only crap like that we're allowing inside our bodies is mRNA vaccine carrier, and even there people are moving beyond polymers.
I'm going to hash-tag this as I want to boost it. I really care about this and want to offer more people the perspective that guides us.
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@dalias I agree with Greenpeace on this. Like the other person who responded, I used to work for Greenpeace. Plastic is a horror.
I can't remember any campaigns they've done that were wrong-headed. I still let what I learned canvassing for their dioxin campaign guide my family.
I think we need purists. I try to be a purist myself, under the belief that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem. Nothing that involves victims is acceptable, and we all live in a real life version of the Twilight Zone episode "Button, Button" nowadays.
I'd love to have a 3D printer, but I won't get one because it's all plastic. So instead we collect woodworking tools. The kids use clay for things. Are there things for which a 3D printer would be wildly convenient? Absolutely. But it would be convenient in the way Amazon is convenient or gig economy companies are convenient. In this case, looking for the victims would be particularly easy - my kids would be among them given microplastics pollution.
The only crap like that we're allowing inside our bodies is mRNA vaccine carrier, and even there people are moving beyond polymers.
I'm going to hash-tag this as I want to boost it. I really care about this and want to offer more people the perspective that guides us.
@mason If you care about it at least care about getting the technical details right.
"Microplastics" do not come from heating up plastic. The vast, vast majority (to the extent that nothing else really matters until you eliminat these) come from intentional manufacture as abrasives (like in skin care products) and lubricants (like PTFE lube, utterly the worst), and from unintentional particulate emissions in abrasive processes (like friction between car tires and pavement, even worse now with multi-ton EVs, and washing of synthetic fabrics).
I'm not here to judge on whether you want to have a 3D printer. But the ability to manufacture precision things fascists don't want people to be able to have, and to distribute the instructions for how to manufacture those things digitally in a way that does not require any sharing of physical artifacts like molds or application-specific tooling, is important. If you're engaged in a campaign to help them suppress that, you're doing us all a huge disservice.
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They have a long, long history of being useful fools serving right-wing agendas and I don't trust them.
@dalias One that also seems awkward at best with this one is putting it on moms when plastic is an industry and are the ones responsible in the first place. -
@mason If you care about it at least care about getting the technical details right.
"Microplastics" do not come from heating up plastic. The vast, vast majority (to the extent that nothing else really matters until you eliminat these) come from intentional manufacture as abrasives (like in skin care products) and lubricants (like PTFE lube, utterly the worst), and from unintentional particulate emissions in abrasive processes (like friction between car tires and pavement, even worse now with multi-ton EVs, and washing of synthetic fabrics).
I'm not here to judge on whether you want to have a 3D printer. But the ability to manufacture precision things fascists don't want people to be able to have, and to distribute the instructions for how to manufacture those things digitally in a way that does not require any sharing of physical artifacts like molds or application-specific tooling, is important. If you're engaged in a campaign to help them suppress that, you're doing us all a huge disservice.
@dalias I've been engaged in that campaign for a while for the reasons stated. Abrasives are not the only source of microplastics and similar. Look at, for example, car tires as they wear away. Even silicone breaks down and emits harmful particles.
If you want to overthrow fascism, convenience (Amazon, McDonald's, 3D printers) isn't the answer. Decide if you're going to pick up a gun or, instead, push for a representative democracy with things like ranked choice voting. Nothing else is going to save us.
For my part, I completely oppose guns, so pushing for citizen initiatives to enact ranked choice voting and calling my representatives to try to influence their voting is what I've got - that and trying to live the changes we're going to need to not snuff ourselves as a species.
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@mason If you care about it at least care about getting the technical details right.
"Microplastics" do not come from heating up plastic. The vast, vast majority (to the extent that nothing else really matters until you eliminat these) come from intentional manufacture as abrasives (like in skin care products) and lubricants (like PTFE lube, utterly the worst), and from unintentional particulate emissions in abrasive processes (like friction between car tires and pavement, even worse now with multi-ton EVs, and washing of synthetic fabrics).
I'm not here to judge on whether you want to have a 3D printer. But the ability to manufacture precision things fascists don't want people to be able to have, and to distribute the instructions for how to manufacture those things digitally in a way that does not require any sharing of physical artifacts like molds or application-specific tooling, is important. If you're engaged in a campaign to help them suppress that, you're doing us all a huge disservice.
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@dalias I've been engaged in that campaign for a while for the reasons stated. Abrasives are not the only source of microplastics and similar. Look at, for example, car tires as they wear away. Even silicone breaks down and emits harmful particles.
If you want to overthrow fascism, convenience (Amazon, McDonald's, 3D printers) isn't the answer. Decide if you're going to pick up a gun or, instead, push for a representative democracy with things like ranked choice voting. Nothing else is going to save us.
For my part, I completely oppose guns, so pushing for citizen initiatives to enact ranked choice voting and calling my representatives to try to influence their voting is what I've got - that and trying to live the changes we're going to need to not snuff ourselves as a species.
@mason Car tires were the big "unintentional particulate emissions in abrasive processes" in my post you replied to. (Since it apparently wasn't clear, I've since edited them in by name.)
I'm not sure where guns came into this. Printed guns are the thing they like to demonize, but the antifascist applications of distributed reproducible precision manufacturing range from whistles to DIY drones not encumbered with spyware to stencils to repairing things that would otherwise be replaced with new surveillance-capitalist "smart" stuff.
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