#USpol #Norway #taxes #tax
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@davidaugust @nazokiyoubinbou Not same expense - there's plenty of evidence that you pay much more for less benefits. Which is not surprising, since that system is primarily a grift for private corporations to squeeze the population ever harder.
@jwcph @davidaugust @nazokiyoubinbou
Many of our European sovereign wealth or pension funds are probably invested in the US system and extracting 'value' too. We have outsourced labour exploitation to China and financial exploitation to the US. -
Worth adding also that European state-funded healthcare produces better health outcomes for less money than the US privatised system.
Plus - not all Norwegians pay more than Americans anyway. What tax you pay in Europe generally depends on what you can afford.
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@davidaugust
Not just Norway! Many European countries also have free healthcare, free college, parental leave, and more. It’s necessary to have a well-educated, healthy population that doesn’t fall for fascists…@WiseWoman @davidaugust sadly there are plenty of European countries on the brink of falling for fascists lies and hollow promises.
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@WiseWoman @davidaugust sadly there are plenty of European countries on the brink of falling for fascists lies and hollow promises.
@Pionir @WiseWoman @davidaugust Very true but with the USA in thrall of Orange Mussolini I'm not sure how that observation has any bearing on the pros and cons of one tax system compared to the other?
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From Germany, I absolutely agree. And it's interesting to note that healthcare is not tax financed here.
There are so many different implementations of this all over the industrialized world, and all of them work. Single payer tax-financed, multipayer tax-financed or completely private, or a mix like here in Germany.
But hey, dumb maga-american geniuses hear "50% taxes" on Faux Knews and fall for out-of-context misinformation or even outright lies, because they have no idea how a progressive tax system in an advanced country works. An average earner here pays probably lower taxes than in the US, but we have mandatory dues for social security including healthcare. They conflate this with taxes because that's what their tax-evading oligarchs tell them. What they don't tell them is that we don't have to pay for everything out of pocket. No extra premiums, and above all, no absurd copays, no surprise bills, no need to walk to the ER because you can't afford the ambulance. And most definitely no out-of-network nonsense.
Also, no PTO but real sick leave and real vacation days. Fresh mothers who don't have to return to their slave jobs the other day. No people dying because they can't pay for insuline. And we don't have one-person death panels in insurance offices who decide whether you get therapy.
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@davidaugust@mastodon.online
I don't think Americans pity anybody else's tax rate. You don't think most Americans don't know our for-profit healthcare system sucks? Do you think Americans honestly want to launch GoFundMes? SCOTUS has made it all but impossible for actual Americans to do fuck-all about anything. Citizens United basically allowed every politician to be openly bought and paid for.@mike @davidaugust still the people need to vote for them.
Also you can still get anyone elected in the primaries if you show up with your buddies and organize the show.
How do you think the republican party got so tea partied/magafied that the classical business republican from the 90s and 00s doesn't really hold any sway there anymore?
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@davidaugust Warum übernehmen wir nichts davon und lassen uns stattdessen anpöbeln, wir würden zu wenig für die Wirtschaft tun?
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Worth adding also that European state-funded healthcare produces better health outcomes for less money than the US privatised system.
Plus - not all Norwegians pay more than Americans anyway. What tax you pay in Europe generally depends on what you can afford.
It's important to know that it's not even state-funded in most of Europe. There are tax-finaced single payer systems like in Britain or Denmark, and there are fully private systems like in Switzerland or the Netherlands. And there are mixed-systems like in Germany, where there is private insurance and public (NOT tax-financed) insurance. All of them have in common that health insurance is mandatory and that the health sector is heavily regulated. Patients are patients, not customers to be ripped off like in the states.
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@davidaugust
There are many other benefit to Norwegian taxes.
Lots of people have really good govt jobs here. Good conditions with good pay. This places pressure on corporations to offer good conditions as well. Everyone benefits even if they don't work for the govt.
They also have a wealth tax, which has the net effect of keeping housing affordable. Instead of investors buying lots of houses to rent out and driving up the cost of home ownership, people have a real shot at buying a home to live in.
The third benefit I should mention is everyone in Norway gets to bitch and moan about how much tax they pay, because they have so much time off work to gather and talk to one another! -
@davidaugust When you are paying for private healthcare, you are also paying the providers margin.
That makes it much more expensive that tax funded healthcare systems that don't take profits. About twice as much in the US than in the EU, with poorer outcomes. -
@WiseWoman As much as I love having free healthcare, parental leave etc, people in EU countries fall for fascism every other week.
@davidaugust@j_bertolotti @WiseWoman @davidaugust They forgot how communists, syndicalists and organising got them to a place of dignity. Thatcher and her lot have eroded the laws and institutions with austerity, technocracy, privatization and individualistic propaganda. It's still holding up though.
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I wish for once someone would do a side by side comparison of all taxes and health costs for an average citizen of these 2 countries.
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Worth adding also that European state-funded healthcare produces better health outcomes for less money than the US privatised system.
Plus - not all Norwegians pay more than Americans anyway. What tax you pay in Europe generally depends on what you can afford.
@GeofCox @davidaugust Another benefit of state run healthcare is that you have (some) democratic control over how they are administered.
A privatized system answers to shareholders and their thirst for profits. Also true for education, transportation water and other utilities... Common goods cannot be privately run. -
@davidaugust
I don't think people understand the idea of free Healthcare. Yes, paying for it in taxes, means it's not free. However, paying for it in taxes means, I don't have to go six years without glasses because I can't afford the exam. It means if my glasses break today, I can go to get an exam, get my prescription and go to get my glasses without taking from my food, rent, and clothing.
Not sure about glasses outside of the US, is that a separate charge?@faliate @davidaugust Optical, dental, prescriptions are not covered in Canada. Well, not universally covered.
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@davidaugust
How were you able to design such an admirable system of administration where all people benefit from what they pay in taxes? -
@davidaugust All told we're probably paying about as much. Especially with the mad king randomly taxing stuff now.
We just get nothing for it. Absolutely nothing. Every penny goes into corporate pockets now.
@nazokiyoubinbou
What can be done to change that system? -
Don't use that term for the RIGHTS Europeans have fought for, and which are only possible because we have democracies where the common good is not an empty phrase. That's the difference between having parliamentary representation of citizens and an oligarchy where people are hoping for "benefits" from their master, err..., employer.
@HarryMutt
Democracy is slowly vanishing which makes people not to enjoy the rights they once fought and are now paying for. What can bring power back in the hands of the people? -
@nazokiyoubinbou
What can be done to change that system?@nuwagaba2 Oh god I wish I knew the answer...
All I can say is the biggest thing is people have to care. Most don't until it actually affects them. And then it's too late.
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CC: Aktuelle Regierung der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
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It's important to know that it's not even state-funded in most of Europe. There are tax-finaced single payer systems like in Britain or Denmark, and there are fully private systems like in Switzerland or the Netherlands. And there are mixed-systems like in Germany, where there is private insurance and public (NOT tax-financed) insurance. All of them have in common that health insurance is mandatory and that the health sector is heavily regulated. Patients are patients, not customers to be ripped off like in the states.
I think you have to be careful not to mislead on this Harry. While it's true that there is an insurance element in many of the European health systems, this is generally not that significant. Here in France, for example, a lot of people do have 'top-up' insurance - but it's provided by mutuals, not the private sector, and works in partnership with the state system - and it's only to cover the small part of most treatment not covered directly by the state, and for extras like designer glasses or cosmetic dentistry. Moreover, all serious or chronic illness care is paid 100% by the state, as is all treatment for anybody on a low income.
There are differences between systems, but the French system is typical of most - including the Netherlands, where long-term care needs are state-funded too. Nobody gets into debt or goes bankrupt through health care costs in Europe, as far as I know.
